JACK JOHNSON V LUIS ANGEL FIRPO?

I honestly think Firpo is so highly rated because Dempsey for whatever misguided macho reason, decided to brawl head to head with the Bull instead of outboxing him. It was a dramatic fight but I don't know if it did Dempsey any favours. I think he would have outboxed him with much more ease.

Johnson would likely have handled Firpo without too many problems; the sparring story sort of confirms it.

 

Johnson handles him with relative ease.

 

Firpo has next to know chance. Domination by Johnson

 

Here's how I see it. Firpo was the bigger man and the better hitter.

Could Johnson clinching / hitting and holding be as effective here?

Would that tactics put him into Fripo's wild swinging, but hard blows?

Firpo hit hard enough to floor Dempsey, and if he catches Johnson, he can upset.

I'd pick Johnson to out box him but if Flynn and Moran could land their share, Firpo could too.

 

According to Unforgivable Blackness by Geoffrey Ward the Feb' 1923 spar is covered on pages 424/425. Firpo, preparing for the Brennan fight at McLevy's gym only sparred one round with the ex champ. Firpo rushed at Johnson, only to find himself punching thin air or trapped within the grinning 44 year old's encircling arms as he bowed to the invited fight crowd, who broke into applause. As the bell rang ending the first round, he patted Firpo's rear end. Luis was furious as was Tex Rickard, who fired Jack and saw to it that he was refused entry to the gym as long as Firpo trained there.
We all know that sparring and actual combat can be completely different, however, it doesn't stretch the imagination to predict the outcome of a Firpo - Johnson fight at their respective best.
I'd rather see The Wild Bull v Lamar Clark.

 

Flynn did not," land his share," he did not win a round.

boxing writer T.S. Andrews reported on July 5, 1912:
The fight was scheduled to go forty-five rounds, but in the ninth Capt. Fornoff of the state force, personal representative at the ringside of Governor McDonald, declared that it was no longer a boxing contest; that it was a brutal exhibition, and that Flynn's foul tactics made its continuance impossible. He jumped into the ring with his deputies and drove the fighters and officials who followed him to the corners. Referee Ed W. Smith then announced that Johnson had won and the fight was over.
Flynn displayed no ability throughout the fight. He was cut about the face until blood ran down his breast in a stream. He was utterly helpless from the first round on and by the sixth was deliberately trying to butt the champion's chin with his head. Time after time, as Johnson held him powerless in the clinches, Flynn jerked his head upward.
Smith warned him repeatedly, but it did no good. In the seventh he began leaping upward every time he could work his head under Johnson's chin. Flynn's feet were both off the floor time and again with the energy he put into his bounds. Sometimes he seemed to leap two feet into the air in frantic plunges at the elusive jaw above him.
Referee Smith forced Flynn back toward his corner half a dozen times. "Stop that butting," he would say, shaking his finger in Flynn's face. "Stop it or I will disqualify you."
"The — Negro's holding me," Flynn roared back. "He's holding me all the time. He's holding me like this," and he offered to illustrate on the referee. Smith evaded the blood smeared arms held toward him and waved the men together again.
In the next clinch—it was in the eighth round—Flynn flung himself upward again. Smith jumped between them and warned him once more. "Next time you do it I'll disqualify you," he shouted at Flynn, but changed his mind, for it happened again and again in that round and repeatedly in the ninth before the police took a hand.
Through it all the champion was grinning. He evaded Flynn's attack with the utmost ease, whether the Pueblo man led with his hands or with his head. Only once in the rounds did he show any wish to end the fight, and yet ringside opinion was unanimous that he could have put Flynn out at any time he happened to fancy, whether in the first or the ninth round.
The paper below gives a round by round summary and says" Johnson Toyed with Flynn" whilst carrying on a running conversation with his wife!
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1912-07-05/ed-1/seq-12/




Against Moran, Johnson was 36 years old and overweight he still won easily.

• The St. Petersburg Daily Times reported the following on June 28, 1914:

The battle was hard fought, but Johnson won easily. Moran was game and stubborn and did most of the leading. Johnson's superior skill was effective and his upper-cutting wore Moran down and won the contest. . . . There were no knockdowns, or anything resembling a finishing blow in the fight. At the close Moran's face was bleeding from a cut under the nose and left eye. Johnson showed no marks.

 

I agree. Firpo's style was made for Johnson. Johnson would pick Firpo apart.

 

This content is protected

 

I was never too keen on the underlined myself.

 

Johnson never allowed for much open boxing. If he was forced to fight Firpo's fight the Galveston grabber would get taken apart just like he would have been against Jim Jeffries. The thing with Johnson was he always fought his fight. The two jabs and a cuddle game plan.

 

A hell of a lot of men ended up with their faces drastically rearranged by just," two jabs and a cuddle".

 

Especially with those gloves.

 

There doesn't seem to have been any significant damage done to Johnson with those gloves,despite fighting for 34years! No cauliflower ears , no broken nose , no scartissue above, or under the eyes.
I guess his opponents wore big pillows.

 

The film does not show this. Moran was the better on the outside, and the one forcing the fight, for the most part, Johnson the better on the inside.

Trust the film over a news read. I doubt the St. Petersburg Daily times sent a report to the fight anyway. I have offered to score this one for you based on the available footage.

We've already been over the many boxing people at ring side who felt Johnson was trying vs Flynn, and holding a lot more because of it. Keep acting as it that didn't happen.

While I agree Johnson was in the lead after 8 rounds, this was a 40+ round fight, and the shape and stamina the fighters were in were far more important than who was in the lead after 8 rounds.

 

What you trust are edited highlights not the complete film I 've read round by round summaries several of them and read quotes by Moran that said he struggled to finish the fight on his feet.
Flynn did not win a round against Johnson the police stopped the fight," because it was no longer a contest".
Flynn was bleeding copiously from facial cuts whilst Johnson carried on a conversation with his wife at ringside ,does that sound like he was in any distress? You are unhinged!
The referee said in his opinion Flynn deliberately fouled out to save himself from a ko.
I've produced all these reports before and I've no interest in debating them with you yet again .
If you have any primary sourced reports that say Johnson was in trouble,produce them.! We both know you won't, so it's just the usual hate bullsh*t.

Phobic Ground Hog Day,boring ,predictable, and fatuously, and inanely stupid!