Jack Johnson v Rocky Marciano

Johnson under modern rules would have to adapt whole lot more in order to be competative. He will have to throw a whole lot more punches and change his entire pace and style. Nobody knows if (without being allowed to hold all that time) he could even keep up!

Johnson was a strong man and clearly a good athlete but put modern gloves on him and he loses 50% of what he had. Remember he could cluch and clinch gripping the other mans biceps after a punch within a hold. Those old gloves were so small, the hands so free you could open your hands as wide as you could as if you are wearing driving gloves. Johnson could have wrote his autograph without taking them off. With Modern gloves you have a job picking up a gumsheild off the floor wearing gloves where as old timers could pick coins off the floor wearing theirs!

Johnson punched like a MMA fighter, all that **** won't work in Boxing with bigger gloves.

 

Marciano stated that Moore hurt him more with that knockdown than Walcott did with his.
"And Marciano is down! He is hurt and dazed,and for a strange second as he gets up at the count of four he seems to forget he is in a fight." Peter Wilson ringside.
"The producer Angus Mackay managed to get hold of Marciano [48 hours after the fight] in NY and I spoke to him over the airwaves."
"You may remember that I wrote that when he was knocked down for a strange second as he gets up at the count of four he seems to forget that he is ina fight.I asked Marciano about this,for he had seemed almost to walk over to the ropes as though he thought he could have a breather." I spoke to him about this
"Ah but you've forgotten that in America there is a compulsory 8 count and even if you get up the referee stil continues to count up to 8 before letting the fight continue"

"Yes I know all about that but you dont have that in championship fights." Marciano said," no you dont understand.We have the compulsory count,And then he paused as he said Gosh of course you are right.It doesnt work in championship fights".


"Rocky was down on his right knee with both gloves braced against the floor.he didnt hear the count but got up instinctively at two .He seemed to stare out over the crowd as he walked towards the ropes".

The roar of the crowd swelled Moore's breast with the pride of a champion.He wanted to charge Rocky and go for the knockout.But referee Harry kessler ,caught up in the excitement of the moment continued counting.he had reached five before herealized his mistake and stopped,for in a championship bout the count ends oncehte fighter has regained his feet."
Everett M Skehan

Sure doesnt sound like Rocky was unhurt to me.:huh

Film of the Johnson fight shows Johnson falling before the punch lands and his sparring partner for that fight GunBoat Smith said in a 1972 taped interview it was a rigged fight with Johnson being a good actor and falling down of his own volition.Johnson can clearly be seen in the footage picking Ketchel up and setting him back on his feet when he inadvertently hit him too hard,only a hater with a phobic agenda would deny this.

All the short swarmers that Johnson met got ko'd.

 

Absolute BOLLOCKS Johnson knocked Denver Ed Martin out for 20 minutes Ketchel some say up to an hour.He kod McVey, if it was just the gloves everyone would have been emulating that.atsch
At a fat, dissipated 37 Johnson went 26rds with a giant in tropical heat described by his opponents as," hotter than hell," and was in front after 20rds.
Do you want to address whether Marciano could have done that?


**** me, give up mate, you are embarrassing yourself.

 

I've actualy read the many contemporary reports of the first Johnson v Griffin fight and you haven't.Come back when you have and we can debate it further ,until then you are postulating rubbish out of total ignorance.
Where do you live, ****ing Alabama?

 

:rofl

 

Straws, clutching ,little gloves , I smell..

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At no point did I say Johnson could not hit hard!atsch

Johnson had knockout power but he would break a man down first before using it.

what I meant was all that short arm-punching within a clinch would be harder to do under modern rules and with modern gloves.

Firstly, Johnsons hands within extra cushioned gloves won't allow the grip he had on the biceps. Secondly he will make less effect with arm punches and Johnson himself was aware of this. In his own book johnson moaned about not being able to knock somebody out because the gloves were too big! He knew it was harder to break a man down in the style that he had if he could not have the same effect on the way to setting someone up for a knockout.

In his day Johnson could break down a fighter with rounds and rounds of all that mauling and inside shovel unppercutting work but that stuff is largely neutralised by the newer gloves and the modern rules. It was a big part of his game.

Holding and hitting is a foul. Clinching is a foul. A large percentage of punches Johnson landed with were within a clinch whilst holding the other fellow.

Under Johnson's rules he has a very good chance against Rocky. Modern rules won't suit Johnson as much. What's wrong with that?

 

Which book would that be I have 5 on Johnson and dont remember that passage.
Holding and hitting under the rules Johnson fought was not a foul, you need to research that.Clinching was not, and isnt today a foul.

If you want to talk about fouls I 'll give you some.

Marciano v Lastarza first fight.
Marciano loses the 8th round for punching low.

Marciano v Lastarza 2nd fight .
Marciano butts Lastarza in the 2nd rd and is warned by the ref.
Marciano hits Lastarza after the bell ends the 3rd round.
Marciano hits Lastarza low in the 6th rd and is warned by the ref.

The referee warned Marciano a total of 6 times for elbowing, butting hitting low and hitting after the bell.
Marciano v ****ell.
Marciano hits ****ell in the kidneys,in the1st rd..
Marciano hits ****ell after the bell ending the 3rd rd.
Marciano butts ****ell in the 4thrd opening a cut on his forehead.
Marciano hits ****ell very low in the 5th rd. Marciano hits ****ell three times after the bell ends the 6th rd#.
Marciano butts ****ell in the 7th rd, and hits him low at the end of the rd.
Marciano hits ****ell whilst he is on the floor

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Marciano v Moore
Marciano hits Moore after the bell to end the 4th rd rings.
Now who do you think would suffer the most from a strict referee?

 

I don't take anything you say serious

 

People need to actual broaden their minds away from the way Johnson fought the bouts we saw him in - consider the circumstances they were fought in and the restrictions and consider the mental approach he took and make a bit more of an educated guess at really what he could have done if wanted to/decided to/been ok to do.

Johnson could've blown Tommy Burns away in two minutes flat lets be fair about this - for whatever reason he didn't go out there and annihilate him like he could done - similarly with Jeffries as soon as he decided he couldn't be bothered messing around with him he blitzed Jeff with some pretty vicious punching that uppercut that put him through the ropes was pretty much effortless and it lifted Jeff over the middle rope - Jeff practically turned his back and ran when Johnson came after him with proper venom and this was one of the real men of steel in a VERY tough era!? Johnson blasted out Fitz like he was nothing and when he actual went for it against Stanley Ketchel he did what would've happened in the first 2 minutes had he gone for it in the first 2 minutes and that's practically killed him?! Johnson was a vicious brutal puncher with a real nasty streak in him people see past this too much - he was secretly the deadliest finisher of his day - that's why no one wanted to guck with him on a level playing field

 

IMO Charles would have taken Johnson to school, Charles was a different level. Johnson was great for his day and the Charles that went 15 with Marciano would have a good chance to stop the Johnson that beat Jeffires

 

THEN WE ARE DOING THE SAMETHING YOU ARE A BIASED TROLL

 

:rofl

 

When Charles fought Marciano there were writers and trainers around who had actually seen Johnson fight, NONE of them share your view. Are they all wrong and you right? Is that what you are asking us to believe?

Charles is not rated anywhere near the top ten atg's at heavyweight.Johnson is routinely placed there.
Why is that?

 

I think it was "Jack Johnson in the ring and out" a library book long since returned, I am sure it's also quoted in other Johnson books like "unforgivable blackness"

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Holding is a foul today!!! Fighters are disqualified for excessive holding. Off the top of my head Jesse Ferguson against Tyson is just one example. I know that holding and hitting was not a foul then but it has been considered a disqualifying foul for many, many years.

Rocky was dirty too but Johnson I think depended more on holding than Rocky did with his over zealous infringements. Every champion pushed the rules as far as they could not just Marciano and Johnson. but when one rule is made that outlaws something so beneficial to fighters sucsess it has to make an impression.

Henry Cooper mourned the loss of being able to hit on the break. Dempsey mourned the loss of being able to hammer a man whilst he tried to rise from the canvas. A lot of rules hindered a lot of fighters. Why shouldn't the holding and hitting rule hinder Johnson???