Jack Johnson v Rocky Marciano

jack johnson would handle the 185 poundS of rocky like a rag doll in the clinch, jim jefries was much bigger and stronger than marciano and johnson handled him easily(yes i know that he wa snot in his prime blablabla but i am talking about strength, foreman was retired for 10 years and in his 40s he did overpower every young guy that he faced iin his second career. Johnson did show that he was stronger than jeffries and jim was clearly a bigger stronger specimen than marciano

 

Nobody out muscled Johnson ,not a fresh Jeffries , not a 205lbs McVey, 20 pounds the heavier man, nor a 238lbs lbs Willard when Johnson was 37.
I don't see 185lbs Marciano doing so.

Marciano was controlling the clinches against old men one 38,one 40 and one a ringworn 33, two of them had the best of their careers as lhvy's . He never proved he was stronger against a young class 200 pounder.

 

I wonder how many points Johnson gets taken away for hitting and holding with all that clinching?

Under modern rules Johnson would have to break unless he wanted to be disqualified. We would then have to imagine what he would be like fighting in an "open boxing" situation from round one.

There is no getting away from the fact that Johnson would wait until the up close holding, cuffing, mauling exhausted his opponents before he would set about anyone "full steam".

 

remember that foreman was allowed to push back frazier several times..

 

Yes and Mercante did eventually warn Frazier albeit too late. In fact he threatened disqualification to George for pushing Boone Kirkman down the first time he refereed george.

Johnson gets warned for holding and hitting eventually too. Post 1920s world championship boxing would not stand for it.

 

Firstly, Marciano was very, very strong. He was no Tommy Burns or Ketchel. Furthermore, he wasn't just strong, he was a hard target to hold., narrow shouldered, slippery and able to contort his torso out of holds. Moore, who was strong as an ox and despite his age a very live fighter (unlike the mummy of 1910 Jeffries), had his hands full when he tried to tie up Marciano and quickly reverted to a being a distance counter puncher.

I don't see Johnson, with that static stance, waiting to slip a single shot to get into the trenches as being successful over 15 against Marciano. I see him getting hit with second and third shots and not being as successful in the clinches as he would think.

Still, Walcott fought Marciano to a standstill over 12 or so rounds, had him going in the 11th... It is certainly possible that Johnson wins. I am not totally convinced either way... and there are very, very few fighters under 200 pounds I can say this about in regards to Marciano.

 

Charles fought basically the same size light-heavyweights,Heavyweights that Johnson did and IMO deeper than Johnson. A lot of the Johnson myth is perpetuated by speculation that he had the cuffs on but his greatest win and largest opponent was the old Jim Jeffires, 6 yrs off and 80 lbs overweight he had to lose with no tune-up, I would not compare that Jeffries win to the Charles win over Joe Louis who was no where past it like Jeffires.

But to answer your question Charles beat Archie Moore,Jimmy Bivens,Elmer Ray,Loyd Marshall,Oakland Billy Smith,Charley Burley, Joe Baski,Jersey Joe Walcott, Gus Lesnevich,Joe Louis,Joey Maxim,Rex Layne,Bernie Reynolds,Billy Gilliam,Coley Wallace,Bob Satterfield

 

Walcott on his run to the title probably showed the most one punch pinpoint power that I can remember, Schmeling had good power in the right hand and Max Baer but Walcott also had a great pair of moving legs. I dont see Johnson clutch and hit tactics working against Marciano in the more modern 1950's and in Johnson day Marciano at no disadvantage because he could play rough and was as mean as Johnson.

This could be an ugly fight but Marciano wore you down and hit you everywhere, you may look good for a while but you payed the bill at the end of the night and as Marciano history has shown us the check was heavy

 

I wonder how many warnings Marciano gets for butting ,hitting low, hitting after the bell ,and hitting if and when his opponent is down,before he gets slung out?


TOUCHE!


Johnson attacked Denver Ed Martin from the onset and left him spark out on the canvas after 2 rds.

Predicting what Johnson would do was never a particularly successful occupation, neither for his critics or his opponents.

Why would Johnson need to go "full steam" for Marciano he could very well content himself by making him miss ,[not hard to do] and countering him when he did . Winning the fight by a clear decision as a 37 years old Walcott was on course to do after 12 rounds. Since I think Johnson is significantly better than Joe Walcott and he would be in his prime, not 37 I see no reason why he should not be able to accomplish this.

 

Jeffries had well over a year to get down to weight and by October 9 months before the fight he was there.Lets deflate the canard that he was on some crash diet that drastically weakened him. Eight of those you named are basically lhvy's. Johnsons largest opponent was the 6'6.25" 238.25lbs Willard who he was beating for the first 20rds.

 

I see Johnson ripping uppercuts into Rocky's suspect facial tissue and neutralising him inside.Johnson himself was as strong as an ox whoever beat him at infighting? GunBoat Smith described Johnson standing flat footed, waiting for you to come in then ripping you to bits with uppercuts.

 

The crash diet myth has been deflated... but Jeffries was a ghost of his former self (who I also think was overrated)... Remember the thoughts of Ketchel and Smith on Jeffries' form. He looks like a mummy on film.

 

jeffries was stronger than marciano and moore together

 

Let's also not forgot that while Jeffries Timing and athletic ability were no doubt diminished.. his strength certainly wouldn't have been. He still had his man strength going for him and Johnson moved him around the ring. So while he might have been lacking in some areas from the layoff... strength wasn't one of those areas, and that is the area being discussed.

 

:happy