Jack Johnson v Rocky Marciano

but by that logic, if a unskilled featherfisted swarmer like marvin hart could beat jack johnson, couldnt marciano do 1 better?

quite possibly an underated win....but did jeffries score two spectacular kayoes against two top 10 rated opponents prior to the johnson fight the way charles did to wallace and satterfield? I mean jeffries was INACTIVE FOR SIX YEARS!! just imagine if charles had retired in 48, then all of a sudden came out of retirement in 1954 to fight rock........u think he would put up anywhear as good as a performance as he did?

fergusson sucked, but his wins over martin, langford, jeneete, mcvea, childs, are very impressive and dominant.

quite possibly....i believe they were closer to their best than indicated.....i would like to find this out.

 

:good On the money

 

I disagree, I also think Hopkins looked great @ 175lbs and if he had trained down to 168, he would have been weaker...what Hopkins gained in his win over Tarver, Delahoya and Trinadad, his careers best wins made him as formidable as ever. He was ahead of Tarver,Johnson, and the rest @ 175 but it was the speed of Calzage that beat him and I dont think Joe gained anything with the added weight...I also believe Walcott was very close to his prime was well conditioned and as Champion fought the FIGHT OF HIS LIFE in the 1st fight vs Marciano, in the 2nd, his will died but his memory did not. Charles had 2 of his best fights a KO in 2 over Bob Satterfield and an 8th rd KO over Coley Wallace, and he fought one of the best fights of his life vs Rocky, what was Charles a year older than Marciano...Some fighters mature later in life Marciano was one that got a late start but fought in his prime and got out. Walcott and Moore was at the peak of there Careers give or take...Walcott may have been a better fighter vs Louis but being a Champion does something to a man

 

I am still waiting for an intelligent answer to my questions.

 

Johnson was not cuter then Walcott, Johnson parried a lot of punches on his gloves but was not as slick as JJW nor did he have the one punch power that JJ had, Johnson had a grab and punch and move style, alot of physical grapling, Walcott had the best footwork since Tunney and it remained the best till Ali but JJW could also hit, he was eratic and sporatic but when 100% TROUBLE FOR ANYONE from Dempsey to Ali and beyond.....Still Johnson had a differcult style to look good against

 

"Johnson was better trained" ??? You kidding?

 

If there would have been an intelligent post you maybe would get an intelligent answer.

 

The Rock had too many guns for Johnson...Marciano by KO...

 

Of course he was better trained. Johnson fought in an era where there was about 40+ rounds and sometimes even more than that, and you either had to quit or be knocked out most of the times. Rocky had great conditioning as well, however we only seen him go 15 rounds. I have seen Johnson fight 40+ rounds. The conditioning in that era is severely underrated. Oh and for the people that stated something as ridicous as '' if Ketchel could knock Johnson down, then Marciano would too''. I highly suggest you buy Jack Johnson's documentary( Unforgiveable Blackness) and get some knowledge. Ketchel and Johnson were best friends and i seen first hand pictures of them hanging out together and going to ***** houses. The fight was suppose to be an exhibition match that went the distance and it was mainly for money. He simply caught Johnson with his guard down and tried his best to take full advantage of the opportunity, and even then it didn't work. Johnson got up and landed the sweetest hayemaker i have ever seen in my young life.

 

1. He looked great for a 43yo, but he was 43, you don't know he;d be weaker at 168

2. Calazage's youth and workrate got him the win, his speed wasn't winning the fight because he couldn't land his first shot

3. If you follow his career you'd know Calazage has been killing himself to make 168 for years and wanting to go upto 175 for a long time

4. Charles/Walcott were definately past prime, both older, been in the wars. Charles went from being completely dominant on a legendary winning spree to losing close fights. Satterfield and Wallace arent close to Charles best wins. Walcott was just old, great for his age but old

Look at these fighters careers after Marciano, they did nothing, this is indicitive that they were at the end. Now these were excellent wins but don't pass them off as near prime

 

"Johnson didn't have the best of chins".Well he was stopped in his 3 rd fight by Klondike Haines,who in 2 more fights, a losing tko and a draw couldnt duplicate the feat in 34 more rounds .Once by terrific hitting Choynsky,and once by Willard when he was 37 and exhausted.He then went on to have another 24 fights before being stopped at the age of 48.Johnson till he was nearly 50 had 88 fights and was stopped 3 times.Contrast that with someone like Tyson,then tell me he was chinny.

 

Really? During which fight did you SEE Johnson go 40+ rounds? And how many punches per round did you count?

 

I don't count punches, and my uncle owns a collection with many of Johnson's fights, most are just clips however they showed that the rounds lasted this long, and since you must likely won't believe what i say, this is an article on Johnson that i pulled off of the web that states it.

''Jack Johnson was the original Muhammad Ali, possessing quick hands and defensive skills ahead of his time. Early boxing reporters and some boxing historians considered him one of the greatest and Jack Johnson became a hero to his race when he captured the heavyweight championship.
His conduct outside the ring challenged every taboo of prevalent attitudes of White America. If he was not knocking out white men in the ring, he was bedding white women outside the ring. Arrogant and fun loving, Johnson lived life at a reckless pace and his public life was an irritant to white America, essentially giving White America the middle finger. With Johnson accession to the heavyweight championship, white promoters began a search for the Great White Hope. Unfortunately, no white challenger could match Johnson skills.
Johnson, for one, changed the rules of boxing by depending upon guile as much as brute strength. In the early part of the century, strength was the key factor. Gentleman Jim Corbett could not handle the power of James Jefferies, despite being the superior boxer. As one boxing historian stated, “If Jeffries could not outbox an opponent, he could certainly outlast the best of them.” With some of Johnson's fights lasting as long as 45 rounds, strength and endurance played key roles in winning championship fight.''

 

Johnson never fought past 26 rounds .he was in 3 fights scheduled for 45 rounds against Cutler [won in 6rds],Flynn,[won in rds9 ]and Willard lost in 26rds.Jeffries was only ever in one fight scheduled for over 25 rds his ko loss to Johnson .His longest fights were a 25 rounder with Corbett which he won in the 23 r nd,and a 25 points dec over Sharkey .The man you are arguing with Chris Pontius,is well aware of this,as you would be if you checked your facts before making these assertions,the information is readily available on Box Rec .com.This aint the General Forum,most of the guys on here know what they are talking about ,do your research and become one of them!

 

It really takes knowledge to go to boxrec.com..lol I only use that site when i forget the dates of a fight, and many people have told me that the site is horrible for in dept views on a fight and not a reliable source when it comes to the historic ones. I actually read books, watch documentaries and go over my facts, not just go on a website and pretend like i know something. The article that i provided is more of a credible source than boxrec will ever be. Now i suggest you do research and look deeper into that.