Jack Johnson vs Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott primes

McVey was 205lbs and had beaten Denver Ed Martin and Fred Russell,after being ko'd by Johnson he would lose 2 more fights[to Martin and Jeannette,] over the next 5 years.

 

I wouldn't really use that fight as a good gauge of what Walcott would get stopped by. He appeared unhurt and the ref gave him a really fast count. Before Marciano was even at a neutral corner the ref was on the count of two.

 

That was Walcott last fight. Hardly a fair way to judge him.

With Johnson's low guard and mostly stationary feet, Walcott would land on him easily. The question to me is if Johnson is allowed to mug him in the clinches via hitting and holding or not. A rules debate.

 

I must say I was a bit surprised at the footage. McVey was crude, mostly a lead left hook the only type of fighter, but much to my surprise, he retreated too easily vs. Jim Battling Johnson. I thought McVey was a bit tougher than this. Then I read some, and he's the type to complain about things to the ref.

While a few minutes isn't enough to judge, the film at least was up close and clear.

My thoughts are if a seasoned Sam Mcvey looked this way in his prime, the teenager Johnson beat must have been even more unrefined in the ring.

 

Fred Russell? He never really beat any of the good fighters he fought. He weighed 215 and was taken to a draw by a light welterweight. Journeyman fighter at best.

Denver Ed Martin was a good win I'll admit that but Martin had been beaten by Johnson previously and McVey was still only 19 years old when he fought Johnson. There is absolutely no way a 19 year old is going to beat a prime 26 year old Jack Johnson, it's McVey not Mike Tyson. McVey wasn't nearly as skilled as Tyson anyway.

I'm fully aware of what McVey would do over the next five years which actually included 3 loses. Two to Jeanette one a stoppage. Would you expect the Harry Greb that got knocked out cold against Joe Chip to beat any contenders for the welterweight title?

 

That's how I see it. I doubt McVey could even cut off the ring properly against a mediocre ring general. The only teenager that would be able to beat a title contender is Mike Tyson.

 

Russell ko'd Hank Griffin and Klondike Hayes and beat Mexican Pete Everett,that's three contenders.
I wouldn't expect Greb to be fighting any welterweights.

 

Griffin weighed 165 in a fight AFTER Russell. Russell weighed well over 210 lbs. With the combination of size and Griffins age (32) I don't find a knockout win that impressive.

Klondike Hayes. Got knocked out 3 fights earlier by an 8 fight Jack Johnson. If he were white he would be considered a journeyman at best. That's not mean't to race bait or whatever it's just a bias that I've noticed even with myself when looking at fighters from the pre-Joe Louis era that I feel like a guy that's 24-11 isn't very good if he's white but a guy that's 24-11 is good if he's black all things being equal. Idk, guess what I'm trying to say is white fighters are held to a higher standard to be considered good then black fighters were back then because we're constantly told that black fighters had it hard and everything which is true for the most part.

Everett had lost 4 of his last 5 fights prior to being knocked out by Russell. He was heavy handed but not very good.

Why not? He was a welterweight when he fought Joe Chip.

 

Good catch. I was thinking about heavyweights though.

 

They were contenders, which you disputed he had beaten yes?

Griffin looks more than 165lbs here.

This content is protected

 

I said "He never really beat any of the good fighters he fought" it was hyperbole meaning he fought good fighters but usually came out on the losing end.

Imo Griffin does not look much more than 165 there. Here's Hopkins at middleweight [url]https://www.ringtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/file_178977_1_Hops-standing300_Jacobsohn.jpg[/url]

 

Where is your source that Griffin weighed 165lbs for a later fight? He is listed as 6'1-6'3" his reach was 81.5"
Going into his second fight with him Jim Jeffries said," he is a big fellow and very strong" would he say that of a 165pounder?

Griffin's weight for the fight is given as "180lbs plus."

 

Well that was short and sweet!