Jack Johnson vs. Harry Wills

Johnson sacked the young Wills as a sparring partner because he said he could not handle the pace.
Kid Cotton who kod Wills was a sparring partner of Johnson's Tate who drew with Will swas a sparring partner of Dempsey's
Denver Ed Martin and Jeannette were 40 years old when Wills beat them Smith was totally washed up.
Fulton, and Firpo had lasted less than 6 minutes against Dempsey .

There are countless reports of underwhelming performances by Wills in bore snores that turned the public off and got him castigated by the press.
He was known for fouling, backhanding,hitting low, on the break, after the bell. Film evidence does not show great defence or power. Wills is seen as a fighter happy to maul and wrestle his opponent. Was anyone better at that than Johnson ?
Those picking Wills have to ask themselves ,what could he do better than Johnson?
imo NOTHING.

 

Johnson was the far greater technical boxer.

 

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I've no wish to engage you in a further debate.

 

Stop using double standards. The less informed might believe you. My reply was fair.

 

The following Harry Wills quote is an excerpt from pages 360-361 of Joe Botti's book about Joe Jennette:

"Jack Johnson was the meanest of the lot. Jack was a smart fellow in many ways, but in others he showed no sense at all. He got so stuck on himself he had the idea everyone should fall down and worship him. Johnson always wanted to show off. He wanted to attract attention all the time, and he didn't care much how he did it. As long as he made people talk about him he was happy, and he never stopped to think that he was doing himself more harm than good.

"If you were a young fellow trying to get along, Johnson would not show you anything. He would rather show you up instead. Take the way he treated me when we were training to fight Jim Flynn in Las Vegas. I was a young fellow then who didn't know much, but anxious to get somewhere.

"Jack Curley, who was promoting the match and looking after Johnson, offered me a job as sparring partner. I was glad to take it because I needed the money and thought I might learn something from the champion. There was a big crowd looking on the day we put on the gloves. From the start, Johnson tried to make me look silly so he could laugh at me in front of the crowd. Remember, at this time, although I was broke, I had something of a reputation, earned through hard fighting , and a boxer's reputation is his only asset.

"Anyone but Johnson woudl have thought of that and acted accordingly. All Johnson
coudl think of was his desire to make me look foolish.

"Of course I expected to be hit and hit hard. I would not have minded that, for I was strong and tough, and it is all in the game. But when Johnson stopped straight boxing and tried to make me look bad, I got kind of sore. Johnson was very proud of his strength. He thought there was no one in the ring his equal in that respect or in any other, for that matter. One of his favorite tricks was to grab your arms, waltz you around and laugh, and then suddenly let you go and uppercut you.

"Well, after he tried that on me a few times, laughing and kidding with the crowd at my expense, I decided I'd see which was the stronger of the two. The next time he grabbed my arms to shove them back, I set myself and threw him across the ring. That wiped the grin off his face in a hurry, for the crowd began to laugh at him instead of with him, something that makes a big difference to these babies who like to show off. Having lost his goat, Johnson began to slug. That was playing right into my hands, for I was tougher and a harder hitter. After mixxing it for a few moments he began to get the worst of it so he clinched and held on, meanwhile trying to laugh it off.

"That was the only time I boxed with Johnson. He told Curley to pay me off and let me go. He didn't want anyone in his camp he could not handle as he pleased. That incident is typical of Johnson's whole career. He never cared how he hurt other peoples' feelings as long as he could make himself look big. Showing off was the cause of all his troubles. At the same time I would like to say right here that if Johnson did not act right when he won the title he was made to pay dearly. Although he could have avoided the trouble that came his way, he was not treated fairly either. I think that all intelligent persons will agree with me that neither Johnson nor the people that undertook to run him out of boxing have any reason to be proud of the way they acted."
From The Baltimore Afro-American. June 13, 1931. Page 14.

 

Excellent stuff!
Wills was very strong
I remember an old Ring article about him and some old boxers relating how a recently deceased boxer was "in state" in his coffin at his apartment several floors up.
The problem was how to get him down the narrow stairway,which did not have room for 4 pall bearers to convey him to the hearse waiting in the street.
Wills is said to have taken the coffin on his shoulder and carried it alone down and out to the hearse.

As far as the sparring story goes , perhaps the truth is somewhere in between?

Johnson was not known for beating up his sparring partners he allowed Kid Cutler ,and Kid Cotton many liberties, perhaps he remembered how George Gardner. and Tom Sharkey had fumed when, as a spar mate he made them look bad?
ps I see this months Ring has an article on the Langford v Johnson fight ,accompanied by quotes from you, again excellent stuff!

Hope H. E .reads this.

The Kansas

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Star reported that in a June 9 sparring session, Wills, who had been a pro for just a year and a half, "did his best, but his best was not much and Johnson called for Marty Cutler after Wills had been on duty for three rounds.



''One of those who worked with him during the hot afternoon sparring sessions was a very young Harry Willis. ''I was still growing'' Remembered Willis but I already had a right hand to the

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that i thought i could hit anybody with. I was working with Johnson one day and sure enough, I nailed him....I got ****y and in the next round i tried the same thing again. Old Jack reached down and caught my fist like you catch a ball and grinned at his wife who was sitting at the ringside.''

Johnson was preparing for the Fireman Jim Flynn rematch.

 

I still haven't seen the article from The Ring. If you get a chance, check out Joe Botti's book about Jennette, I found it an interesting read and it contains a lot of great photographs and material that I'd never seen before.

 

I'll do that.

 

We'll here's what he did do ... fight a still extremely dangerous Sam Langford time and time again, a man JOhnson clearly ducked ... also fought far better competition than Johnson did after Burns. We should also not talk about boring, mauling, clinching performances as no one is more infamous for that than Johnson ..

Who wins, who knows ? I'd say despite your Wills criticism which is clearly an attempt to build up both Dempsey and Johnson it is known that Wills was exceptionally strong and a very big puncher. At 35 he manhandles Firpo who was a bull in his own right ... if we take the 35 year old Wills who diced Firpo with the 35 year old Johnson who got a gift over Jim J in Paris and was almost knocked out at the bell I'd pick Harry ..

 

Thought I'd drop in this recollection from Wills, late in his life, of sparring with Johnson:

"I was one of his sparring partners when he was training for Jim Flynn out in Las Vegas in 1912," Harry said. "That was enough. I learned most of the things that I knew about fighting in that camp. You can believe everything you've ever heard about Johnson.
He was strictly a counter-puncher. Every move he made was to get you to lead until he found an opening with that right uppercut of his. He could stand there and pick off punches all day. And when he did catch you with that uppercut, even with the big gloves, it felt exactly as if you had rammed your chin full tilt against a brick wall. It was an awful punch."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=LOYrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qmUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1001,3534871

 

JOHNSON HAS BY FAR MORE CREDENTIALS AND THE PEDIGREE HERE, BUT i agree, if they had fought 3 times will could win once.

 

Johnson wins all three matches if they fought 3 times.