**Jack Johnson vs Jack Dempsey**

It's a tough one to pick. Good style clash. Very 50-50 seeming.

 

It's incredibly easy for me to pick, Dempsey by KO.

 

You never step in the same river twice.

 

Fight never happens. Dempsey's manager realizes that this is a horrid style matchup for him, because Johnson does everything to neutralize a great offense, so Dempsey would have to either rely on an ugly, controversial/debatable decision or landing the unlikely knockout blow. Johnson would be clinching and smothering, as well as leaning away, blocking, sliding back, and talking smack, all the while sneaking in quick shots throughout, outside and inside, that would puff up or cut up Dempsey and have him looknig beat up at the end. Hence, Dempsey's people would find any excuse in the book to avoid the fight. How many black fighters did Dempsey fight in his entire career? And what happened? Did he fight any good ones? Therein lies the answer, in part.

I very much enjoy Dempsey's style. I love ass beaters. So much fun to watch. But put those ass beaters in with tricky defensive cautious boxers, and often it is a dull fight as the puncher gets frustrated trying to land on a guy who pecks away at him. See Castillo-Corrales, an ATG fight, but then watch them against Mayweather. Or watch Trinidad blasting guys in so many fun fights, but then watch him against Oscar or Bernard or Wright. Or Chavez pounding on guys and breaking them down and ruining them, but then frustrated trying to hit a Whitaker. Different ball game when the guy won't duke it out and has great D.

 

A very genuine possibility there...

Or Johnson shows up in the indifferent sort of mood his apologists are so quick to dismiss but which caused performances like the Hart, O'Brien and Jim Johnson affairs (cue the litany of excuses) and Dempsey catches his undertrained ass on the ropes and knocks him out.

 

I reallly don't understand how this poll is so close.. I mean honestly, this fight isn't very close at all. Johnson HAS the the style to beat dempsey and lay a beating on him. He would boss Dempsey around the ring and smooth him when he tried to let loose. Johnson has the superior chin and that would be key here. Johnson woudl land and land hard... That doesn't speak well to dempsey's chances. Johnson by basically anything he wanted... play it safe and smoother and beat the dude up... Johnson decision... He gets pissed off and lets his anger for while folk take over... he KO's dempsey.. I really so no other way around it.

 

Who is the fighter Johnson beat who is most analogous to Dempsey?

If you dare say McVey, I have some footage for you to compare.

 

Probably the earliest example of a 'Dream' Heavyweight title fight. Both easily the best Heavy champs prior to Joe Louis. Only Gene Tunney came anywhere near them.

 

If you dare say McVey... I LOL'd... I would honestly say Langford and a little McVey. So tell me.. honestly... who do you feel has the better style matchup for the other? I see Johnson as having the clear style advantage to beat Dempsey. We also shouldn't forget about their personalities and mind set... Johnson loved beating up white folk and was determined not to lose to them.. Dempsey was the exact opposite. As stated by someone.. it's doubtful Dempsey would've even taken the fight with Johnson which illustrates this point. People act like Dempsey would knock out Johnson as a given, when in fact, the opposite is much more likely. Johnson chin was far more tested and proven than Dempsey's. Sure Dempsey has a punchers chance and if he hurt Johnson was adept at finishing, but that is a big IF. Who do you think Johnson was analogous to that Dempsey fought? How do you see him winning this fight?

 

A few points A. Nat Fleischer who saw them all picked Jack Johnson as the best of all heavyweights,and he may well might have been...
But no one should discount what the 1919-23 Jack Dempsey bought to the plate....Dempsey was a lithe and strong hellacious puncher in his prime
and was fast as a MW on his feet...No heavyweight, even the strong
defensive Johnson could easily contain Dempsey in close for long...
Dempsey was no Rocky Graziano winging misplaced right hands into the ozone, but a dynamic two fisted puncher who did great damage in close.
Unfortunately most modern fans are exposed to the two films of Jack Dempsey against Gene tunney in 1926-7, when Dempsey without a fight in 3 years, without ONE tuneup bout fought a razor sharp Gene Tunney...By all accounts this Dempsey was a shell of himself from the Dempsey who flattened Morris, gunboat Smith, Fred Fulton and Jess willard when he was in his prime...All in sensational fashion...
In this fantasy fight with Jack Johnson H2H, if Dempsey did or did not fight "black" fighters [athough he did fight John Lester Johnson, manhandled his black sparring partners, George Godfrey, Bill Tate, Chief Turner] is errelevant when Johnson and Dempsey were in the ring...
Today Dempsey is thought very little of as a great heavyweight , but in his prime his peers held him in awe and respect as the greatest offensive fighter in history, and I honestly feel that these fighters, trainers, and sports writers were much closer to the real essence of the prime Manassa Mauler than many posters of today ,80 years later...
Would he have beaten lil Arthur, who knows ? I have it pick em, but
Dempsey in my eyes irregardless of his going "Hollywood " for three years, would be a tough hombre for any heavyweight when he was at his best...Cheers...

 

good post Burt.. Kudos...

 

The Sam Langford that Johnson fought was 150 some odd pounds. What relevance was that version of Langford to a 1918-1921 Dempsey? If you answer none, you are correct.

Johnson loved beating up white folk so much he let that diaper wearing hillbilly Marvin Hart off the hook and let him take a decision with a title shot on the line.

And I really want someone to draw comparisons between what you see below in McVey and Dempsey. Please show me where Dempsey uses the jab form of extending his left as a jousting pole and rushing straight in to commence a yet another hug fest. Well, enjoy...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1Du1z8R_f8[/ame]

 

I LITERALLY spit up my water when I read extends left and and charges like a jousting poll... haha. You didn't answer my question big buddy.. Which fight is analogous to Johnson that Dempsey fought? Who has the better chin? Who was stronger? Better defense? Do you really believe Dempsey hit THAT much harder than a johnson who put effort into a punch? Who tested themselves against better opposition? All these things are checks on Johnson's side, and for the life of me, I can't find many checks in Dempsey's... can you?