Correct me if I'm wrong, just going from memory Didn't Jack & management turn down a Langford fight in 1916 when Jack was still very green, very light and very underfunded? Also, wasn't Jack undernourished and sleeping on a park bench during most of his NY stay which included the JL Johnson fight? I seem to remember those details from various Dempsey books I have read.
I think its fair to say many good white fighters of the era drew the colour line, John L Sullivan, Jeffries (who is underrated) while he was champ, and others. You have to put it in to context of the times, but some clearly thought they would have a real tough time against the black fighters and therefore took the easy option. But you'd have to say in doing so their reputations have been jaded and history does judge them for it, even Dempsey. But I don't think anybody could really call him a coward. Johnson drew the colour line after becoming champion, he knew he would probably have had tough nights against black fighters that he knew so well, on top of this the money was not good for fighting them, and this was the primary factor. Johnson nearly always let fights go long to earn more money from the film rights, and didn't always fight too hard against opponents in order to secure other fights. Oddly enough it seems early KO's were not what the crowds wanted to see in the 1900's especially when a black man was beating a white man and the promoters certainly did not as it meant less money for the fight footage.
Jack Johnson was a master at what he did and Jack Dempsey was a master at what he did. The stuff Johnson was best at worked on guys smaller than he was and the stuff Dempsey was best at worked on guys bigger than he was. Is Johnson getting his arm locks on Dempsey before he gets hit? Dempsey was an awful lot faster than Jefferies, covered more ground and angles than any of the smaller guys Johnson manhandled. Prime Johnson managed only a draw with Philadelphia Jack Obrien. I think Dempsey would have been a better fighter than Marvin Hart too. I favour Dempsey but cannot entirely have full faith in any man that struggled with Willie Mehan.
C, Willie Meehan was called the "king of the 4 rounders for a reason. That was his specialty to go all out in an unorthodox way in close, making it very very difficult to hurt him in those 4 rounds...Fat and fast was Meehan who also decisioned Jack Dillon, and a chap named Sam Langford in 4 rounds. Dempsey still learning, fought Willie 4-5 bouts winning and drawing twice. Now tell me this C. Was there any heavyweight ever who at some time in his career was not behind the judge's scorecard after 4 rounds ? Very few of note...Like the great mile runners, many many sprinters would be far ahead f them in a short race. My point is Dempsey on ESB is tarnished in his legacy as a great heavyweight at his PEAK, because of who he didn't fight. Now to be criticized because he lost 2 4 round decisions to a "spoiler" who excelled in these abbreviated bouts, because he would have most likely be exhausted after 4 rounds and have been another journeyman in regular distance bouts. If a "FAT Willie Meehan" could decision a Jack Dillon, a Sam Langford, and other good fighters in a 4 round fight than Jack Dempsey was in good company...
Johnson fought and defeated far more talented big men that Dempsey did .. his pre title record is filled w victories over high caliber large heavyweights ..
This is a super fight and both men would bring opposition superior in totality than they faced previously. I think Dempsey speed and power and Johnson with his defensive ability have the style to trouble one another. Could this fight go the distance and Dempsey win, Yes, could it be a stoppage in favor of Johnson, Yes, and it most certainly could go Dempsey by KO and Johnson by decision. any mans fight IMO
Mr Bienstock I favour Dempsey but cannot entirely rule out the draining spoiling of Jack Johnson since the spoiling of Meehan made some impression. I say this whilst mentioning Hart and O'brien in Dempseys favour. I understand that it is common knowledge that Meehan stood no chance with an elite fighter over the longer distance and that is why he was so careful to ensure the shorter range wherever possible. But Johnson had ATG spoiling prowess. I absolutely favour Dempsey but acknowledge Johnson's greatness. That's all it is sir.:good
Whatever the spin Meehan did fight Langford, Greb and Wills when Dempsey never fought any of the three ..
It's been posted here time and again .. if you do not know, review Adam's excellent book on Jack Johnson, The Rise .. have to do your own homework ..
