Humor me. List the 5 more talented heavyweights that Johnson beat. C'mon, you're smart. You read a book. You should be able to do it.
One individual tried to compare Willie Meehan with Butterbean because they were pudgy fighters and were known for fighting in 4-round bouts, but Meehan started out as a bantamweight and fought in 20-round bouts during the early part of his boxing career. - Chuck Johnston
I've said this before. On this forum Dempsey's considerable talents thought so highly by the vast majority of boxing experts who saw him at his best fight, whilst his detractors on mostly ESB evaluate him by WHO HE DIDN'T FIGHT...Jack Dempsey was a rough and tough SOB and fault his braintrust, NOT HE, for choosing not to fight Harry Wills [though they did sign], and my idol the MW Harry Greb, a fighter who were I Dempsey's manager, I would also avoid for it was a NO WIN outcome. If Dempsey would catch the 25 pound lighter Greb and ko Harry {which I think he would have], people would grumble, 'why doesn't the big galoot fight someone his own size ?" And if perchance Greb does evade Dempsey's power and beats Jack, well there goes Dempsey's considerable vast earning future. A NO WIN SITUATION... A sidenote= When Joe Louis became champion and was a feared and beloved champion, It was often printed in the sport pages of the day that Louis's braintrust refused to match Joe with the tough and defensive minded Slapsie Maxie Rosenbloom, because Maxie would make Louis look bad, even by loosing to Louis. A managerial decision also...
Like I said this fight is a toss-up but if I had to bet, I think prime vs prime Jack D may have the fire-power to take Johnson out early if not the longer distance may favor JJ
I would say Burns ( 5'7" 168 pounds ) who looks much shorter than the 5'9" Ketchel vs. the same fighter on film rates the #1 or #2 win for Jack Johnson. My thinking is Langford was 20 years old and but 156 pounds, Jeannette a raw novice with a sometimes losing record, and McVey as a teenager were too young / new to rate as great wins. IMO on fight day the Burns Johnson beat in 1908 had more then the the above three he beat in the decade. IMO the best fighters Johnson fought when he fought them were Willard, Choynski, Burns, Hart, Griffin, and his last match with Joe Jeanette. Jack Dempsey would rip Jack Johnson's title opponents to shreds.
Your tear down of Johnson for what is maybe the thousandth time has absolutely no relevance to the original point of this thread You of course have taken the opportunity to fling some more mud at Johnson, but that won't be any surprise to regular posters will it? One of Johnson's title opponents ,a kayo victim, kod Dempsey inside a round.:think
It was a reply for Seamus. I'd picked Dempsey over Johnson, and if you read already commented on the alleged fight between the two in another thread. I believe the Flynn KO was legit.
I just don't adhere to the notion that Johnson would struggle with Dempsey inside... he may need to be more active in controlling him and need to more careful while mixing it up in there. However, it's Johnson's fight to lose in there and he'd have no issue in the strength department against Dempsey. It's a pretty good fight in the sense that Dempsey could maybe get him out of there early... If he doesn't and it goes past the 6 round.. I see Johnson punishing Dempsey to a brutal KO finish
This isn't entirely true though is it. Greb beat most of Dempsey's jesters such as Miske, Gibbons, Brennan and Levinsky, but he did not beat any of his dragons like Willard, Fulton, Morris and Firpo.
The truth is that Johnson is one of the most proven pre 1970s champions against big men. The criticism that is often directed against him in this regard, is unjustified.
Burt, I absolutely love the man and the myth as much as the next guy , truly but who is the best man he beat ?
Name to me the great big men he fought. I hear a fukk load of platitudes but no names. The GREAT. BIG. MEN. who Johnson defeated. That is all I ask.
Dempsey once he was hooked up with Jack Kearns,and started to eat properly beat Gunboat Smith, by 2rd ko, Battling Levinsky ko2,Fred Fulton ko 1, Jess Willard ko 3, Tommy Gibbons 15 rd decision, Luis Anger firpo, ko 2 rds, Bill Brennan ko 12, Billy Miske, ko 3, Georges Carpentier ko 4, a prime Jack Sharkey ko 7, and he had a razor sharp Gene Tunney down for a LONG COUNT after a 3 year layoff from boxing...So he you pick out the best of his victims...Remember how HIGHLY regarded was the Manassa Mauler in his prime by hardened boxing trainers, fighters and sportswriters who saw him in action and raved about him. No one combined such speed, viciousness, and killer instinct as Dempsey at his best....Forget about his weight of about 190 pounds as most of his poundage was from the waist up...Nat Fleischer described Dempsey as "amazingly Strong ", with fast twitching muscles much like the later smaller Roberto Duran...cheers...
