Jack Johnson Vs Jack Dempsey...?

And they were more talented than Dempsey?

OK. If you say so.

 

After Johnson kod Martin for what was described as 15 minutes the promoter offered the champion Jim Jeffries a $15,000 guarantee to defend against Johnson.

"Johnson defends world 'colored' heavyweight title.
"..Manager McCarey of the Century Athletic Club announced that he would offer a $15,000 guarantee for a match between Jeffries and Johnson...""

 

I think Johnson was one of those fighters who only fought as hard as he had to. Dempsey would certainly make him fight, and I think this would bring out the nastier side of him. As others have said: Dempsey early, Johnson late.

 

What I find impressive is how many times people are willing to give Johnson a pass because "he just wasn't trying"...

 

Martin, McVea and Ferguson were not great, but they were undeniably very good.

These were the people that the media thought might provide the best challenge fore Jeffries, when Johnson defeated them.

So while Johnson didn't beat a great big man as such, outside of Jeffries of course, I do not think that the criticism that he only proved himself against smaller opponents is fair.

 

So, Martin, McVea and Ferguson were more talented than Dempsey.

And they were more talented than Willard or Gibbons.

OK.

 

They might well have been more talented than Willard.

I think that they probably were more talented than Morris and Firpo.

 

The criticism more aptly applies to Jeffries imo.

 

Johnson soaks up the early pressure and hospitalises Dempsey.

'Prime Johnson' though.......I have no idea when that actually happened. Probably when he was 20 or something....?

 

So, when he was about 170 pounds and got KO'd by Joe Choynski.

That sounds reasonable.

 

Shhhhhhhhhh!

 

Aight, aight...I realise this is the 'Classic' section and I'm commenting alongside people far more knowledgeable and statty-based than myself but I've read Johnson's autobiography and I personally believe that his 'prime' was before he got his title shot.
Hence my comment about '20 or something'.
He had some massively hellacious tear-ups on and off the record as I suppose most fighters did back then and I suspect him capable of his best performance (theoretically and IMO) before his 'on-paper' best period.
I'm not going to argue against your stance using the same ****ytical deconstruction as some regular classic posters would use, it's just my two penneth.:good

 

I don't especially blame Jeffries for that ,apart from Johnson and McVey there weren't many big quality guys around, it is what it is.