Jack Johnson vs. Jeffries in 1905

Adam Pollack seems to think Johnson faced plenty of punchers.:huh Why do you allways say when he meet them? What punchers knocked out Johnson when HE was in HIS prime? he went 15 years after the Choynski fight before being stopped again at the age of 37 , after 78minutes of fighting against a giant, who he was leading on points, if it had been a 20rds fight, he would have won.
Do you think Jeffries would still have only the one ko defeat on his record if he had continued fighting into his 50's?

We saw what happened when he came back past his prime and he was 3 years younger than Johnson was when he met Willard.

 

He pops his head up long enough to throw out a couple of childish insults ,then disappears back into his burrow.

 

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

You fail to grasp the salient fact that Johnson was NEVER knocked out whilst he was in HIS prime.
Johnson's career stretched for over 36 years and more than 80 fights. By contrast Jeffries was 9 years , and just 23 fights.

Johnson never defended against anyone as bad as John Finnegan.


"Finnegan landed the first blow as they came to the center of the ring, and Jeffries then put his left on the Pittsburgh man's jaw and he went to the floor. Finnegan came up in a few seconds only to be sent to the floor again with a blow in the same place. He stayed down longer this time and when he again rose he was in visible distress. He had hardly assumed a fighting position before the champion put his left in the pit of his stomach and Finnegan went down completely out. Referee Siler counted the seconds off and when he stepped back it was seen that Finnegan was crying. He staggered to his feet, reeled against the ropes and his seconds rushed into the ring and carried him to his corner. It was several minutes before he recovered sufficiently to leave the ring. Jeffries said he weighed 220, but he looked 30 pounds heavier. Finnegan weighed but 180, and he looked like a boy beside the champion." (Brooklyn Daily Eagle)


And,the Jack Munroe fight was a travesty.That actually lost Jeffries money.

Munroe after a little fiddling was the
first to lead. He shot out the left, but
the blow was provokingly short. Jeffries
smiled and danced around his opponent
and the drew him into a clinch. He tried
a right for the body, but missed.
A clinch followed, and then Munroe
tried the right, but could not connect.
Jeffries chewed gum and grinned. Then
with a spurt Jeffries sent over the left and
hooked the miner on the jaw.
Munroe went down, but got up smartly.
Jeffries then waded in again and drove a
straight right to the head and followed
with a left swing to the wind. The champion
would not give the miner any rest, but was
after him sending Munroe to the ropes
with right and left on the body.
Jeffries then put the left for a well directed
punch. The blow landed on the jaw and
Munroe went down and remained on the
floor for eight seconds. He arose, but
was again floored with a similar punch.
Munroe started a vicious right for the jaw
but the bell rang and the champion checked
the blow. The miner did not land a punch
in this round and worried when he took
his chair.
[SIZE=+1]ROUND TWO
[SIZE=+1]

This content is protected

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]They went to a clinch, Munroe receiving[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]a left swing to the mouth that made him[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]spit blood. He bored in, but Jeffries was[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]after him, smashing him all over the body[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]with lefts and rights and flooring him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Blood flowed from Jack's face and mouth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Another straight terrific right to the face[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]rendered the miner helpless. He sank[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]slowly to the floor and attempted to rise,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]but Jeffries was waiting for him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Before the champion could land on his[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]helpless victim, however, Referee Graney[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]grabbed him and declared Jeffries the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]winner.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]

This content is protected

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Munroe was completely outclassed and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]seemed to be frightened while sitting in his[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]corner before the fight started[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
atschatschatsch


I suggest you keep quiet about the comparative quality of title challengers of Johnson and Jeffries.

As Gene Tunney stated "Jeffries made his name beating old men".

We could also add no hopers to that list.


Another testament to Johnson's chin.

Monte Cox ,rating Johnson's durability out of 10

Jack Johnson also gets an 8. He went 12 years between knockout losses and had a 10 year unbeaten streak. In his early loss to Choynski he was still green and when he lost to Willard was 37 years old, past his prime and it was 26 rounds.

* [Actually it was nearly 14 years.]
No one is saying that Johnson had a chin on a par with Jeffries , but is was certainly more than adequate as his record attests.

Adam Pollack's take on Johnson's chin
"Either Johnson's chin did improve with age and additional weight or it was just that his defence
vastly improved, or both. Perhaps his fear regarding his chin explains his very cautious defensive style. Who knows? Again, one can debate. But no one stopped him in a fight after Choynski in February 1901 up to April 1915 when the huge Willard got him when he was old and in the late rounds (rd. 26) in the heat when he was tired, and I imagine he got nailed hard on the jaw somewhere sometime in all those intervening years, yet no one stopped him for about 14 years. Did he get dropped? Yes. But he always got up, except for Choynski and Willard. Not bad at all.

The Klondike KO is overrated. Sure Johnson was hurt and tired, but he was never down. He was clinching excessively at the time, so the police stepped in and ordered the bout stopped, thinking that Johnson had enough, but given Johnson's ability to last and survive, I think it possible that he could have lasted another round and clinched his way to a decision loss had they allowed it to continue. Johnson fought him to a 20-round draw in the rematch, and Klondike retired in their third bout.

McVey was known as a huge puncher when Johnson fought him, and he was more experienced than folks realize. He was 14-0 with 14 KOs when Johnson first fought him, weighed over 200 pounds, and they fought three times, and McVey had bouts in between those fights to gain additional experience. Yet you would think that a puncher in 60 rounds of boxing would manage to land a big one somewhere on Johnson, yet he never hurt him.

Marvin Hart was known as a big puncher who decked nearly everyone he ever fought. Yet, Johnson took, blocked, or eluded his punches.

Frank Childs was known as a puncher as well. Ed Martin wasn't a huge puncher, but he was a big dude with height and reach and weighed over 200, and one of the few who stopped Hank Griffin. So too was Sandy Ferguson a large man over 200 pounds who could punch. Jeannette was no slouch of a puncher either. Nor Lang or Flynn. Even Burns had a solid punch, as did Ketchel and Kaufman and probably even an old Jeffries. Johnson fought plenty of punchers. So either he had at least a solid chin, or he just had phenomenal defense. Argue away"

Since you beileve Johnson's defence to be vastly overated ,and just posted that a fighter's chin does not improve with additional weight, you must be forced to agree that Johnson was pretty durable .:rofl

 

Tommy Burns said he thought O Brien was a better boxer than Johnson, whether he was being honest I don't know?

 

This photo is contained in In the Ring With James J. Jeffries. It left me scratching my head as well. It is from a newspaper of the time - New York Journal, April 1900. It could be a fake, I suppose. But it is also possible that he pulled off the feat. Jeff was a big 220 pound dude known for his strength. Tommy Ryan probably weighed about 160 pounds, give or take. Jack Jeffries weighed about 185. So the question is, 'Can a strongman put-up that amount of weight?' I wasn't so sure I believed it until I saw the show Absinthe in Las Vegas, where an unbelievably strong man put two guys on his hands and held them aloft, and as soon as I saw it I thought of this Jeffries photo. This guy did several acrobatic feats of strength that left me with my jaw dropping and saying "Wow." So you never know what is possible.

 

Jeffries was off for 6 years at had to drop an awful lot of weight at the age of 35-36 and fight the Champion without a tune-up...Why would anyone not think he would not do better or win. I think a fight prime for prime would be a hard fight because of styles but there would be a different Jeffires.

If we had to judge Ali on the Holmes fight I don't think any would pick him to beat Johnson...why should we hold Jeffires to higher bar.

I personally think a fight between them prime for prime would be a tough fight because of styles but I think I give Jeffries the edge

 

On that picture--I think it certainly is POSSIBLE. As you said, the photo could be faked, but just the other day I watched an old movie in which one man--apparently average sized--bounced off a trampoline, did a somersault in the air, and then was caught feet first by a second man using only his hands and standing in place. The first man landed in a standing position on the other man's hands as is shown with Jeffries. Now this was only one man, but the catcher caught him and held him up like that. So I think it is possible that Jeffries could do this.

*The movie was BORN TO DANCE during a "dancing" number by sailors on a ship.