Jack Johnson vs Jim Jeffries (27 minutes footage)

Not sure whats going on at 11:00-11:06. Jeffries extends his left (fairly customary for Jeffries), Johnson extends his right in mirror fashion, then tries to punch down on Jeffries left with his own, but Jeffries is able to throw a fairly mean looking hook at Johnsons chin, which Johnson manages to evade by going back.

Thanks, pablo1, for bringing this footage to our notice!:thumbsup

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EDIT 12:20-12:35, is there some head-on-head contact here? Not sure how bad, or of intent.

EDIT: 12:50-13:05 I think Jeffries may be trying to head butt, and also he gives Johnson a lacing in the face.

EDIT: 13:28 Johnson tries to close with Jeffries, Jeffries pops up and foreward, head to Johnson's chin.

14:00 Despite questionable tactics, Jeffries showed more aggresion this last round. Either Jeffires reactions are shot, or Johnson's defense was very good, or some combination, because Jeffries isn't landing enough, at Johnson, though not super active, is mostly landing when he does throw.

 

Not impressed in the least by what I see. Johnson= sooooooo overrated.

 

20:00 Johnson now steadily pecking away, like water hollowing a stone.

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Johnson does impress me. Yes, he's very cautious, but he able to keep control of the situation, is able to comand the distance, shows timing and accuracy with either hand, uppercuts fluently. Now, I also think Jeffries had become a bit of an old man; I get the impression his reactions are shot.

 

On this, we can agree.

 

Thanku !! I dont see what the hell anybody see's in this guy!
He does next to nothing except clutch and fire uppercuts. No worthwhile jabs, a wide slapping hook ect.ect. I cant stand to even watch him for more than a min. or two.

 

Jeffries landed his best blows with his head. Johnson couldn't miss, it's just too bad he rarely ever tried to put the punches together.

 

Of course you knew that jabs were not scored back then!

 

Johnson fought with one of the best possible styles for his time. It's useless to strictly compare his boxing techniques to modern boxing.

I'm not saying he couldn't have thrown a better left hook or that he couldn't have put together the punches better but you have to keep in mind the type of ruleset he fought under. Johnson was an intelligent man and boxer and there was a valid reason to much of what he did or did not do in the ring. Athletically he was well-capable of executing most techniques.

In fact, the one time when he did go on the offensive against Willard, he ran out of gas. You just couldn't afford to in a contest that could go 45 rounds. As can be seen in the above film, there wasn't much of a limit on the fouling either.

 

I understand what your saying. I just dont understand the people that list him as a grt. HW. Great for his time but H2H I dont think he beats any HWChamp after him except for Carnera

 

If every boxer is rated based on estimated head-to-head ability, the rankings become too subjective for my tastes. I believe greatness stands on what a boxer accomplished in his own era, fighting under his own ruleset against the opposition around.

Johnson was great in his day. That's something that has to be acknowledged based on what the man accomplished.

Whether he would be great in any day is merely speculation. You have to take into account the fact that Johnson would have the ability to adjust to his surroundings.

It's a big task to estimate for example how Floyd Mayweather would do in a 45 round fight with small gloves (and his brittle hands) against a freely head-butting (see Victor Ortiz) and wrestling (see Ricky Hatton) opponent. Same thing with how Johnson would do in a 12 round fight today.

 

It's a 45 round fight at altitude under the hot Nevada sun in July. With such a potentially great length to fight, this is essentially a fight to the finish. If you think that is easy, take a buddy to Reno, Nevada sometime on July 4 and try to box in the outdoors at 3 p.m. in a fight to the finish. Good luck. I've lived in Nevada in the summer, and believe me, I don't want to walk around outside for more than five minutes, let alone fight.

It pays to be efficient and methodical under such circumstances. They didn't give a crap about points boxing. It was all about effective lands that would eventually lead to a KO, and preventing your foe from doing the same to you.

Johnson is clever and cautious, not allowing Jeff to land anything, and quite frankly doesn't allow him to get off very often, and does not allow him to fire or cleanly land anything meaningful. His defense is very efficient, raising his hands or suppressing or clinching or moving or rolling or leaning away at just the right moment and at just the right distance, doing so with no more energy than necessary.

Jack doesn't waste himself on combos, rarely throwing more than one at a time, or no more than two, and quickly defends, clinches, or suppresses any counters. But he is very fast, and that is not sped-up footage. If you notice, the referee's movements are slow and natural. When Johnson fires, it is as fast as lightning, and sneaky too. Sometimes you can barely see the punches. He has some nice short hooks that are hard to see coming, and his uppercuts are short, blazing fast and snappy, and even harder to see coming, and he's rocking the head of a very large and strong man. Not exciting, but very effective. It is a methodical dismantling of a bigger man. His reactions are so fast, but he's also so calm and relaxed and minimalist that you may not realize just how blazing his speed and reactions are.

And notice how when Jeff advances, Johnson knows how to step or slide just out of range, or quickly move in to suppress or fire something before either clinches. This is something which many can't understand or appreciate unless and until they or their favorite fighter has been in there with a guy who can do these things, and then after they are defeated you come to appreciate it. Not what you might want to pay to see, but it works. Put a very exciting offensive fighter in there with this guy and just watch them get totally neutralized, and picked at consistently round after round with crisp shots here and there until they wilt. That's what Johnson did to guys, and what he did to Jeffries.

 

One other thing. Even back then, many fans and so called experts hated Johnson's style, did not think he was all that good, and/or did not appreciate his ability. Some appreciated his skill, cleverness, and effectiveness, but still did not care to watch him very much. But when he kept winning over and over and over again, they eventually came to realize just how good and effective he really was. But a lot of folks were very begrudging back then, even the way they are today about guys with spoiler styles. Some did not want to credit him because of his less than entertaining style, while others didn't like him because of his race, and still others simply did not like his personality or how he conducted himself, which skewed their judgment. Most gamblers thought Jeff's strength, offense and power would eventually overcome Johnson's defense. They did not think Johnson could hurt him. And they were able to see Jeff train on a daily basis in public, so if they thought otherwise based on his training, they could have wagered on Johnson and then the odds would have shifted. Yet, Jeff was a 10 to 7 and 10 to 6 favorite all the way up to the fight. They were totally wrong. And many analysts today are totally wrong about Johnson too.

 

thanks for the posting the footage. i've never been overly impressed with johnson on film but you have to respect what he did during his time. the one thing that i can not get over is how johnson made it out alive at the end of this fight or even for the weeks after. the killings that when on because of it lead me to believe his life had to be threatened at some point.