Jack Johnson .Vs. Lennox Lewis

Johnson is prety unique as a defensive heavyweight. There has never been another as adept at avoiding getting hit or even similar stylisticaly. To find paralels you really have to go to a lower weight class.

He is like Louis in that there was never a heavyweight anything like him before or since. There have been three Jack Dempseys in the history of gloved boxing but Johnson and Louis are stand alone events.

When Jack Johnson fought Al Kaufman who was the leading white challenger at the time Kaufman landed two clean shots on him in the duration of ten rounds.

That is actualy less shots than Gatti landed on Mayweather!!!

You dont shut out a world class fioghter however limited in this manner without having exceptional defensive skills. I knew that Joe Calzaghe was for real after theLacey fight not because I thought that Lacey was a particularly good fighter but because I knew that he was world class and should have been able to chieve something on that basis alone.

Gatti as you know was a limited fighter but it was calculated by ring magazine that he would have landed more punches on Mayweather if he had thrown them at random than if he actualy aimed them!

By the same token Johnsons defensive prowes were such that a man off the street would have more chance of hitting him by not knowing what he was doing than a limited fighter would by aiming his punches.

 

Lewis, by stoppage.

 

Lewis would try to establish his jab against Jack Johnson who was a superb defensive fighter and then Jack would force Lennox to try and open up more. The jab, followed by the right hand of Lewis would find its mark more often later in the fight and I think LL would win a decision based on the cleaner punches, and his size. If it is over more than 15 rounds though I would have to say Johnson by late round stoppage. He was tested in that aspect and Lewis was not.

 

As to the man in the street theory even as an old guy Johnson would give "civilians " chances to hit him ,while he swayed ,parried and blocked their shots without throwing punches himself.Johnson did have a batlle with a gang of thugs in London when he was here as Champion , he kod 4 of them ,the other one ran away.

 

under old rules, jonhson and easy. jonhson had much better stamina,he was faster too, under modern rules i can see both ways by decision.

 

Yes, that footage is very telling. Though in poor shape by his usual standards, Johnson show's a good capacity to go on the attack with hard hooks and crosses - these intentions he masks with a little defensive trickery before exploding out of his stance.

Unfortunately for Johnson, if Willard was any one thing, he was durable. Many a good pugilist would have wilted long before those extended combinations began to fill his arms with lead.

 

This really isn't fair, you can only be the best in your own time but Lennox hammers him

 

How does Lennox break Johnson's grip in the clinch to land a clean punch? Or are you going to change the rules to modern rules that suit Lennox?

Lennox is very, very strong. I presume stronger than Johnson (though i am not certain), but he does not know how to protect himself in close in a clinch. It isnt really fair, Johnson will land at will.

This really isnt fair, Lennox hasnt competed with full rules, you can only be the best of your time.

 

LL wins a decision by virtue of excessive respect and caution....undue respect and caution, because I suspect that he was capable of stopping Lil' Artha.

 

Lennox is at his very best when he fights from the outside and lands straight punches, there is no doubt about this. Jack is ultra cautious at the best of times, against Lennox he will be doubly cautious for obvious reasons.

This fight will be fought up very close and in the clinches. I just watched Golota v Lewis. Just one clinch in the fight, and Lewis didnt really seem to do to well, though it really didnt matter in the end. Rnund 1 of the Lewis Vitali, and it seems that Lewis' idea in the clinch is to loop his left hand around the back of Vitali's head and keep his right hand free. Note that the right hand is very wide of the body, and in no postion to protect Lewis from any type of strike. Rnd 2 and it is clear that this left hand clinch is Lewis only method of clinching. He clinches by pulling down with his left on the head and even then, he didnt even try to clinch when he was quite badly hurt. And note also that he doesnt tuck his chin in in that clinch, so isnt really defending himself at all in the clinch. Rnd 3 and it is quite clear that in this fight at least, Lewis clinches only with his left hand, and he likes to do so with his left on the outside, so he can fire a right. by the way, i forgot just what an enjoyable fight this is, but neither really has any concept of defence or clinching. So Tell me, which film should i watch to see Lewis demonstrate just how skilled lewis is at clinching, like you say.

Johnson has no peers in the clinch. Watch him. His head is tucked in, in perfect position so he cant be hit. His arms are always on the inside (where Lewis lets you get) so he can actualy grab the other fighter arms, to wear them down, and stop them from hitting you cleanly. There is no way, Lennox will fire off a clean shot with that right of his. But Johnson, with his hands on the inside will land his left at will (Lewis doesnt even use his right to protect himself and this can be then followed with the right. STylistically, other than Lennox' obvious size, this is an easy fight for johnson.

Now as i said earlier, it isnt really fair to lennox, because he has never had to protect himself in the clinch. And looking at his gloves, it looks near impossible to open the hand and grab the arms as is needed in a clinch because the gloves are so big, and also it seems they are shaped a little different, and i doubt the massive hand wraps would help either.

 

Lewis under any rules at any time. As strong as Johnson was reputed to be in his day, Lewis is extremely strong even by today's standards. That clinching, mauling and uppercutting Jack found so effective versus lilly-white middleweights wouldn't play well against Lewis.

 

Of all the Heavy Champs, I think Lewis is probably the one who would pose the most problems for the most Champions ,if you get my clumsily worded assessment.He is huge strong, powerful, and can really hit,good boxing ability ,footwork is a bit lumpen but he is a big guy,
He is also excessively cautious at times.
I can't forget Lewis against Holyfield , who was aging ,I think Lennox should have won very decisively both times,and though there is no doubt in my mind he did win both fights, he left some doubt about the second fight in a few viewers heads.
This is a toughie to predict for me, I would like to hear more arguments first.

 

Good Lord how much ignorance.....:rofl:rofl:rofl:-(


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFWA5xjJ0-4[/ame]
...look at his sparring partner .
Who the hell fights like that nowadays?...not even drunk brawlers in bar fights and certainly not Lennox
His defense would be absolutely obsolete and useless against modern giants with great skills like the K bothers or Lennox.
To say that JJ would lose very badly against a modern HW champion is an understatement.

If you think that his defense would be as effective in the 2000's as it was 100years earlier, then you should be ashamed of yourself and never show your face around here anymore because that's absolutely laughable.

Most of the contenders back then weren't even professional boxers..had boxing as a second job. they were heavy smokers, didn't train properly and fought 3-4 times a month.


Good thing they didn't gave the old man a title shot against Dempsey.
the Manassa Mauler would had ended up in jail with murder charges..and
by the way when Dempsey won the title, in 1919, Johnson was 41, not 38.