Jack Johnson vs Luis Angel Firpo ''The Sparring Session''

No belly on Vitali.

 

Nor Holyfield, and he's about 47-years old.
Roy Jones, 40 year old, is still in great shape at 174 pounds, no belly.

Roy "Pretty Boy" Shaw, the legendary London 'ard man, villain and unlicensed boxer, is still in good shape with a flat stomach at 70+ years of age.

Or the actor Charles Bronson, (he was about 53 years old in the pic below) :

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I think Jack Johnson was just a bit out of shape at 37, probably (almost certainly) due to the fact that he'd spent most of the last 5 years living the high life, eating well, drinking well, and driving around in his flashy cars. He probably shed a lot of weight to fight Willard but he was still noticeably flabby. Age is no excuse. (and I say that as a man pushing 36)

 

A friend of mine, who fought unlicensed bouts did "some work "with Shaw, he described him to me as a "complete head banger, as broad as he is tall,as vicious as a snake in a fight ,and impervious to pain."
Johnson began to decline after he had won the title, he knew he had the skills to outpoint his limited opponents and did not train seriously, the washboard stomach disappeared, never to be seen again after the Ketchel fight.
Photos of Johnson at the time of the Willard defence show him carrying lard around his arse and midsection,Willard in contrast is raw boned and lean ,his turn would come in Toledo, against Dempsey .
I am 61 in two months ,and my six pack is now a sick pack , but I like my real ale .

ps Bronson had some fights as a welter, the film shown is pretty good ,dont you think?
Of course there would have been more facial damage but pretty good ,the bald bad guy at the beginning is funny.

 

I can believe all that. Scary bloke, I wouldn't have wanted to cross his path in his criminal heyday. But I do respect those guys, the way they survived the brutality of jail and came out stronger than ever. And they had a certain code that the young thugs these days have no concept of.

Willard weighed 238 against Johnson, according to boxrec.
And was a whopping 259 a year later against Frank Moran (confirmed in New York Times reports I've read).
He managed 245 against Dempsey, but he was certainly looking softer than he'd been against Johnson.

 

You have to be in shape to last as long as Johnson did in that heat.
Johnson was in good fighting shape, But also Johnson like to lived hard, the wine and lifestyle he lead, was perhaps a reason for his gut. During his exile of couse.

He was not James Toney fat, but a little over weight.

 

Mendoza says:You said,

As I pointed out, Johnson did not spend a year in jail prior to meeting Willard. Its not my reading, its your lack of acumen.

Also, can you show me a link on the heat? The temperature you reported is most certainly false. Over 100 degrees in the Cuba in April?. Another bogus statement.

 

You took a quote out of context ,plus that is not my last post,can you not count?
Do you seriously think I don't know when Johnson went to jail ?
I have even posted the day he turned himself over to the US authorities ,and the names of the two representatives of the law he met at the border .

Listen, Mr Pathetic, try and keep up , you aren't worthy of an argument.
So this is what I'll do , Jack Johnson defended his title in Havana , Cuba, on April 5th 1915, it was the coldest day in living memory , a record low for the country.There, how's that?

How desperate are you?

You must hate me nearly as much as you hate Jack Johnson.
Get with the programme, Dr Z too much onanism over Mr Jeffries appears to have addled your senses.

 

You two are definately the Hatfields and the McCoys of this board ! And both knowledgable guys to boot ...

 

You are a sad moron. You made up for your own mistake I see. It doesn't matter. Those who keep score know your not much of a match for anyone here. But please do show me that 105 degree heat the day of the fight. I like to see you get one right.

 

johnson had a tire around his belly when he fought willard. he was grossely out of shape.


I find it amusing Johnson toyed with Willard at 44 years old. I always felt the Black fearsome four Langford, Wills, Jeanette, Johnson were much better than most of the white fighters during that period....such a shame the white fighters of the late teens refused to fight them even when they were old. The only one they did fight, Harry Wills, gave them Spanking after Spanking(Fulton, Firpo). Even 175lb Kid Norfolk beat Harry Greb, Billey Miske, yet never got a title shot.

 

Six sentences,and only two spelling mistakes. I am impressed, you have obviously taken my words to heart.
Another five, or six years ,and you will be on a par with a ******ed Chimp. :good

 

He was quite fat.
20 pounds overweight, and no where near as muscular as he had looked in his prime. It was at least 20 pounds of sheer unwanted flab.
Out of shape means out of shape, and Johnson was just that.

He was a relaxed experienced fighter with a strong mind and a ton of guile, hence he went 26 rounds in the heat.

As you say, the wine and lifestyle put him out of shape.
And whatever shape he was in for Willard, it wasn't "good", because the lifestyle showed on him clearly.

 

Johnson was 37 years of age when he meet Willard. While he was past his best, he did hire Sam Mcvey to spar with him and get him into shape for the fight.

Sometimes a belly is not the true indication of whether a boxer in in shape or not. Out of shape fighters don't go 15+ rounds.

The story of the fight for those who have seen most of the rounds is Johnson could not hurt Willard. Johnson was rather active by his own standards for the first ten rounds.

While he was not in peak condition, he was far from being grossly over weight and out of shape.

 

Hey spell check police, overrated has two r's in it, and there is a ' in couldn't, and " i " in Kilrain is lowercase.

It would be best for you not to rip someone else's spelling and grammar. I count three mistakes in one sentence here! The above quote are your words and can be read in the Sullivan thread.

As for the chimp comment, we both you lose your temper rather quickly here. It is a sign of your intellectually frustration.

I can toy with you as if the game was chess. If I choose, I will keep you in on the defensive as I take away your all of your pieces one by one. It must be hard being you as I keep you in " check " all too often. In fact I think this game is nearly over! When can I expect you to start screaming racial insults, using CAPS in your replies?

Now can you show me some sources for once on the temperature of the fight? I can ask 100 times. You simply ignore my questions when you know your wrong.

Check.

 

A belly on a fighter who used to sport a washboard is a pretty strong indicator.
If out of shape doesn't mean out of shape, then maybe no one was ever out of shape.

Larry Holmes v. Butterbean shows how 10 rounds is possible for disgraceful slobs. Surely those two were out of shape. And if they'd been 20 pounds lighter each they probably would have managed 15+ rounds and they would have still been GROSSLY out of shape.

Johnson was out of shape, but fit enough and good enough (going rounds is largely mental, I think) to last into the 26th.