Jack Johnson vs. Marvin Hart (Hart's win leads to Title shot)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Longhhorn71, Aug 4, 2018.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    So Pollack who was done the extremely thorough and diligent research he is noted for in producing his 2 volumes of Johnson.has been historically revisionist,because he hasn't seen the fight? Whereas you who have done no research and haven't seen the fight either ,are more qualified to give an opinion on it? Oh okay.

    This is from the SF Chronicle the morning of the fight."Greggains [the referee and promoter]stated last night that he will allow no loafing from Johnson."

    "As a special inducement to the two men to go in and make a rattling good fight of it,Greggains has practically promised match with Jeffries to the winner_ in case the winner should be Hart.
    If Johnson wins matters will not be altered so far as an opponent for Jeff is concerned since the hairy one has not withdrawn the color line and has no intention of doing so."
    The SF Bulletin said.
    "The problem for Johnson was that he was the best boxer,not the best attacker and he was fighting the most aggressive man in the business.Hence if the fight was to be decided on aggressiveness alone ,unless Johnson scored a knockout the fight was already in the bag for Hart in its inception,because there is no man alive more aggressive than Hart."
    Those on the East Coast wondered whether the fight or its decision would be on the level.Some thought the fight was fixed for Hart,given that Jeffries would not fight Johnson no matter what.
    The Trenton Times said
    "The bout has a peculiar looking angle to i tfor the reason Hart has repeatedly declared he will not enter the ring with a Negro.
    He once announced in Boston after winning a bout from Kid Carter that he was a southerner and would not insult his friends by fighting colored man.For this reason sporting men are somewhat sceptical about the genuineness of the fight,some hinting that Johnson is certain to lose in order that Hart may force Jeffries to ameeting,the latter having refused many times to fight Johnson."

    Pollack speculates in his book
    The fear was that a points decision would surely go to Hart no matter what so that a lucrative Hart v Jeffries fight could be made.
    A Jeffries v Johnson fight would probably be even more lucrative,but because of Jeffries color line stance it appeared the fight could not be made even if Johnson won.
    Hence the sense was that Greggains might be more inclined to award the bout to Hart if he wanted to promote a Heavyweight Championship fight.There was no real future money in it for Greggains if he awarded the fight to Johnson.
    Further the fact that previously Hart had drawn the color line consistently, but was now willing to fight Johnson,made some think that he had been told he would be given the decision if it went the distance and hence withdrew his objection.Perhaps this was why the Hart side had insisted on Greggains as the referee and would not accept anyone else including reputable man like Graney and Welch.Plus there had been some pre-fight news reports on the East Coast that Johnson could only win by a knockout.

    Oddly enough though back in Hart's home town of Louisville it was reported that"Johnson must knockout Hart to win" The Louisville Times quoted Hart as saying," Johnson has to knock me out in twenty rounds to get the big end of the money ,and this fact will work to my advantage,as it will cause him to attempt to carry the fight to me.
    " I was robbed.That is all there is to it.I fought good fight and am satisfied with the showing I made.I got the worst of it.Had I had my way I would never have stood for Greggains at any stage but it was all Abrams' say and I have to suffer.I put up the best fight I knew how and am satisfied that I was the winner aat every stage"

    " Hart is a big tough fellow very awkward and hard to hit.I will leave the verdict to those who sawthe mill and let them form their own opinions.All I can say is I was robbed. After fighting until I reached the top I have been thrown down by an unfair ruling"
    Jack Johnson.
    The AP report .
    " Hart was far from demonstrating that he is qualified to meet Jim Jeffries.
    Hart was as badly punished a man as has been seen in a ring for a long time,but he was game to the core and kept boring into the big colored man all through the fight"
    " Hart's face was battered to a pulp,but Johnson's blows did not seem to have much sting to them."
    Pollack asks the question."Perhaps it is telling that Greggains would not referee a big bout for the next five years.Greggains had refereed the Jeffries vSharkey 1 bout and several other lesser bouts.After this decision though ,he fell off the map as an official".

    The Hart camp would accept no referee but Greggains for the fight.
    ps the underlined in your post is a deliberate lie and you have been corrected on it many many times.The fight was NOT billed as an eliminator with the winner to face Jeffries for the title, Jeffries days before and on the morning of the fight reiterated he would NOT fight Johnson if he won and furthermore would never defend his title against a Negro.
    The contemporary news reports I posted here emphatically show that!
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Bump.