Jack Johnson vs Muhammad Ali, 1910

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Big Tex, Jun 13, 2015.


  1. Big Tex

    Big Tex Member Full Member

    208
    0
    Jul 4, 2010
    Muhammad Ali steps in last minute to fight Jack Johnson when an old James J. Jeffries backs out due to illness (anxiety?). Original criteria from the July 4, 1910 bout in place. 45 rounds. Who takes this and how?
     
  2. Big Tex

    Big Tex Member Full Member

    208
    0
    Jul 4, 2010
    By the way, anyone know the ring size for the Johnson vs Jeffries fight?
     
  3. timmers612

    timmers612 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,018
    416
    Sep 25, 2005
    We have no idea of how either in their primes could handle a marathon 45 round route, or for that matter just about any other all time great either, so I'm going to negate that factor here in my response. Two things stand out for me between them, Ali 's favorite weapon the left jab would have been picked off by Johnson's catching and Jack would have had little offense tag Muhammad due to his stance, great for defense but hobbled in moving forward against a target like Ali. An occasional right hand would hit home for both and Jack would land some in close. A lot of close rounds and the winner depending on what each judge would be looking at.
     
    louis54 likes this.
  4. Big Tex

    Big Tex Member Full Member

    208
    0
    Jul 4, 2010
    We know the Willard fight went 26 rounds, and Johnson had a number of 20 round battles. I think a fighter had to train to fight for the long haul back then. Ali had to consider this factor and be prepared to end it early or settle in for a potential marathon.
     
  5. itsa

    itsa Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,747
    48
    May 22, 2015

    Ali takes this fight. I think he hits a little harder and has better footwork. The clinch game Jackson will try and pull might work for the early rounds until Ali finds his footwork route.

    I see this being a close technical battle but if Ali catches him with the right hand enough times he outpoints him or finishes him late
     
  6. itsa

    itsa Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,747
    48
    May 22, 2015
    But close close fight.

    Probably not one to please casuals
     
  7. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,355
    306
    Jul 30, 2004
    Wow, I've actually been thinking about this match-up and scenario.

    If Johnson can get in a phonebooth with Ali he might spank him. Ali isn't tugging Jack's head, cause Jack is going to secure Ali's arms first, then punch. I think, in 15 rounds, Ali's feet keep this from happening. But I don't think Ali is going to be on his toes for a long, long distance fight. Should Ali try to KO the more economic Johnson? But that's risky against a good counter puncher, and might make it easier for Johnson to get his hands on Ali. I don't know that I'm betting on Johnson, but I'm not betting against him.
     
  8. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,355
    306
    Jul 30, 2004
    22 foot ring at Reno. Johnson was asked if 22 ft was agreeable to him or if he wanted larger, he said 22 ft. was OK. I think Jack wanted to avoid any hint of 'advantages', he wanted to leave no possible excuses for his opponent. (via Adam Pollack's 'In the Ring with Jack Johnson Part II: the Reign')
     
  9. Big Tex

    Big Tex Member Full Member

    208
    0
    Jul 4, 2010
    Thanks, guilalah for the ring info. I think you're spot on in your ****ysis. Ali has to be economical in this fight due to the distance, I believe. I just don't see him KO'ing Johnson here, though that may be his best hope of winning.
     
  10. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    In a big ring Ali will dance circles around Johnson. However can he dance circles for 25 rounds?
     
  11. Big Tex

    Big Tex Member Full Member

    208
    0
    Jul 4, 2010
    Ali was as much a product of his times as Johnson is to his. I believe both could adjust to a change in eras, given time. However, without time to prepare for a 45 round fight, I see Ali getting nudged in this one. Solid chin, excellent in the clinches, good defense and built for the long haul, I give this to the Texan! Johnson, the Galveston Giant, in a close decision or late round TKO.
     
  12. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    45 rounds? Aside from Willard how many of JJ bouts were scheduled for 45 rounds????
     
  13. Big Tex

    Big Tex Member Full Member

    208
    0
    Jul 4, 2010
    Jack Johnson had four scheduled 45 round bouts, that we know of. Two were against Fireman Jim Flynn, one against Willard and one against Jeffries. In fact, Johnson's next fight after the Jeffries bout was a 45 rounder against Flynn. As far as long bouts are concerned, April 17, 1909 exhibited the longest fight of the 20th century when Joe Jeannette and Sam McVey fight in Paris where Jeannette wins when McVey is unable to come out for round 50, a little more than a year before the Johnson/Jeffries fight.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    Who says Ali would have to dance for 25 rounds? He hit harder, took a better punch, and could clinch just as well if not better. The only thing Johnson did significantly better was uppercut.

    Johnson's defense vs. the jab is suspect, and in fact tended to slow down a bit vs. some of his tougher opponents in long distance fights past 15 rounds vs. live bodies near his size or bigger ( Hart, Griffin and Willard ). I think Ali lands as easily as he did vs. everybody else.

    Johnson only went past 20 rounds once, and he lost that fight. So perhaps Johnson’s assumed edge in the distance is not going to be a factor.

    Ali via TKO inside 10 rounds.
     
  15. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,633
    58
    May 4, 2007
    Jack Johnson is great in the clinch, but Ali is a lot bigger, faster and strong in the clinch as well. There's a rumour around that he has a bit of will to win too.

    Mis-match. Even with the difference in rules, you can't spot Ali a size-advantage like this.