Jack Johnson vs Muhammad Ali, 1910

Johnson was considered as to having the best defense of any past hwt champion. You cannot ignore this or pass it off that somehow all the experts at that time had it wrong. Ali would have a tough time hitting prime Johnson as would most other hwts.

 

Ali dominant win

 

I tend to agree with you, while Jack wasn't set to slip punches he could catch, block, and parry with the best and with his weight on the back foot stance would seem ideal to pick off Ali's straight punches, Ali wasn't a feinter. That stance though would also hinder him from landing much on Ali.

 

I honestly believe that Ali would box Jack's ears off in this one. Johnson's only hope is to drag him into deep waters, tire him out and beat him late. Maybe I'm wrong ... never did like JJ that much so I could be biased.

 

Jack really, in 1910. He would be at home glitching the rules and tweaking the setting. Ali wouldn't have time to relearn the rules.

possibly ali in a rematch though, if ali is given a few months to adapt.

Ali would pull hotter women though.

 

Yes, but vs durable men ( As Ali was ) and men not past their best, he was found having less activity in the later rounds.

The Griffin, Hart, and Willard matches are examples, and none of these guys were close to Ali's class. Two of these matches happened Johnson was in his prime years. He could not hurt them, and Ali would not respect Johnson's power. Ali has a significant edge in terms of reach, and an edge in height. Combine this with Johnson's low guard and Ali lands as much as he did vs. other opponents.

If Johnson out pointed a teenaged Sam Mcvey twice in 20 round matches, what does that really mean?

Ali has under rated power, enough to rock Sonny Liston early and stop him later, and take Foreman out. I think Johnson's ability to take a punch was levels below Foreman and Liston, so Ali could certainly stop Johnson early. I see a mid round TKO for Ali, which for this fight would be between rounds 8 and 15.

 

Perry who said that, and when did they say it?

Johnson got by with a low guard and having a height advantage in many fights by leaning backwards. He did not use his legs to escape. This is not going to work vs a taller longer armed opponent with skills as Ali was.

A small fry like Jack O'Brien who had little power in fact out jabbed Jack Johnson. Where is this vaunted defense of Johnson's? And what would Ali's longer / faster / more powerful jab and right hand do? Land just as much I say.

In filmed fights, a sloppy Ketchel floors him ( giving up a lot of height /reach / weight ) , and Frank Moran appears to be the better on the outside. Moran would not be in the top ten today on merit, and if he was it would last until his next fight.

While past his best by 1915, Willard who is somewhat ponderous lands on even terms in the surviving footage and some of that happens well before the ending.

 

Fleischer who saw him live from ringside rated him as having the best defense of any other hwt champion. Newspaper articles from that time call him "untouchable". Jeffries marveled at his defense. If you know boxing just watch him. He was a master of defense.

My opinion is the Ketchel knockdown was faked.

Orientation was rated for decades as the best lt heavy champion. He was a quick moving dodgy boxer. Over six rounds he could outmaneuver many hwt champions.

You obviously dispose Johnson like some on here ignoring history and instead trying to weave your own. I tend not to believe YOU and instead believe experts from that time and my own eyes.

Fighting with hands low does not mean the fighter did not have a great defense. Loughran, Tunney, Leonard all masters of defense also fought with hands low. Means nothing. You can debate others if you want regarding this as I am not interested in trying to alter known and widely respected and understood history.

 

It was a different heavyweight division back then, with many smaller men vying for the title. Short of giving Johnson a 20% increase in size, he'll have to turn infighter or Ali will befuddle him from range and manhandle him in the clinches. And if Johnson turns out to be great against Ali in the clinches, good luck catching an Ali who doesn't want to clinch!

Besides that, iron chin, enormous will to win, etc..

What would Ali do with Johnson's opposition? Even under those rules?

 

If prime Ali just teleported through time in 1910 and fought Jonhson, Ali would've destroyed him. Too easy.

 

Prime Ali made lots of defensive errors.

Prime Johnson would parry the Ali jab consistently.

In a short fight you would go with Ali. In the type distance Johnson trained for its all Johnson. Ali could not move as he did for 25 plus rounds so Johnson gets in close and mauls him. Prime Ali had to fight at distance to get the job done.

So my pick in a 15 round fight is Ali. In a 25 round fight its Johnson big.