Jack Johnson vs Muhammad Ali, 1910

Ali wasn't in his prime when he fought Doug Jones. And what on earth makes you think an Ali-Johnson fight goes 25 rounds or longer?

If it went 10 rounds, Jack Johnson would've gotten hit with about a thousand more blows than he'd ever been hit with in a single fight before.

The speed and power of a prime Ali and the quantity of blows he threw, and the accuracy he possessed then, was nothing like Johnson ever faced. Nothing.

Johnson never sees past a few rounds. And he gets the living hell beaten out of him.

Johnson was a stationary target and a counterpuncher, who tried to lean back and catch punches from very slow heavyweights who threw one punch at a time.

The very last person Jack Johnson would ever want to face would be a prime Ali.

This is ridiculous.

But ... I'll play along ... Yes, if Jack Johnson can survive about two thousand blows, and he doesn't get his face totally ripped to pieces and his gold teeth knocked out, and a 25-year-old Ali physically exhausts himself, and decides to lay on the ropes for the last 20 rounds, Johnson might have a chance ... if Jack can still see or know what state he is in.

But even if Ali went to the ropes, it's not like Johnson was going to light him up while he stood there with his gloves up.

See ... it just doesn't work.

ALI by KO in 3 ... and Johnson may not even land a punch.

You can't compare the size, speed and power and quantity of punches thrown by a prime Ali with anyone Johnson faced back then.

Ali wasn't some little guy who was going to lay in a clinch with Johnson and try to headbutt his way to a win. Hell, Ali was bigger than Johnson. Johnson would likely not even be able to hold Ali if he tried.

It's not even competitive.

Johnson was the best of his era. But his era never had a prime Muhammad Ali in it.

 

The best jabber of Johnson's time was considered to be Denver Ed Martin.Six feet four with an 82" reach, Johnson beat him twice ,the second time by pulverising ko.I'm not picking Johnson but the myth that he only fought smaller guys is just that ,a myth.

 

Yes, I'm sure Denver Ed Martin could jab just as good as Muhammad Ali, and dance like Ali, and throw combinations like Ali, and I'm sure he was as fast as a prime Ali, too.

Or maybe not.

If you could find a Denver Ed Martin fight that shows Martin looking like a prime Muhammad Ali against Cleveland Williams, I'd love to see it.

ALI KO3 Johnson.

 

I very much doubt it. However if the above is true, then you are either deaf, or daft, as you didn't take very much notice of your " friend " Dundee. As he said himself " My guy did everything wrong which is why he was so fantastic. He threw punches from positions and angles he had no right to throw them from, and which the other guy didn't believe he could throw them from either, until it was too late because he'd already been hit by them. "

Jack Johnson would retire inside 8 rounds with twisted blood, and a shot to sh it equilibrium.

 

Double you are wayyy out of your league. THE way to beat prime Ali was to BOX him not to try and knock him out. Johnson was a GREAT all time boxer and he would do very well against Ali. He had all the tools to do so.

 

I am very much aware of Angelos comments...more so than yourself. However that statement has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

 

Johnson's fights with Griffin were in1901 and 2, hardly his prime years.

" He has a knack of blocking that is marvellous.I tell you that's what made Johnson a fighter ,his great defence that comes naturally to him"
Philadelphia Jack O Brien, after his fight with Johnson.

"Some were surprised at the high level of skill and at times speed that Johnson displayed".
"It developed during the bout that Johnson was as clever as O Brien,and there was very little difference in the speed of the two men when Johnson was really trying,which was seldom".

The writer disagreed with the reports that said that O Brien landed many blows.Many blows that appeared to land in fact did not.
A close record ,had it been kept would have shown that O Brien missed almost as many jabs as he landed, for there were blows which slipped by Johnson's head,which from another angle of the ring would have appeared to have reached his face.
No man who has ever boxed O Brien in this city has made him miss as often as Johnson did,in fact it appeared as if Johnson could make O Brien miss whenever he wanted to" Adam Pollack Jack Johnson The Reign.

Eddie Futch named Ali, Louis ,and Johnson as the three best heavyweights of all time.Maybe he knew something?

 

How exactly was Johnson going to outbox the taller, faster, stronger Ali, who threw and landed 10 to 20 times the number of blows Johnson saw directed at him EACH ROUND in his day?

Oh, right, by making Ali miss for 25 rounds by leaning back ... like he made Denver Ed Martin and Jim Flynn miss ... and then he was going to hit Ali three or four times a round ... (since we all know in his prime Ali was often outpointed by guys who only landed three punches a round.:roll ...

because WE ALL KNOW Johnson was great at hitting fleet-footed boxers who were bigger and faster and stronger than him who circled constantly out of reach from counters. atsch

Johnson "outpointing" a prime Ali is laughable. Sorry.

Johnson would get hit more times than he was ever hit before in a fight by the third round. And he'd get hit that many times by a guy who was bigger, faster, stronger, and far more mobile than anyone Johnson faced ... or Johnson himself.

And if Johnson somehow took more punishment than anyone should ever take for 20-plus rounds and was still alive and standing upright, Ali spent years winning decisions BY fighting off the ropes and killing the clock against guys who threw a helluva lot more punches a round than Johnson did.

But it never even gets that far. It doesn't go past three.

It's a whitewash.

ALI KO3 Johnson.

 

I suggested nothing of the sort, I just stated that Johnson twice beat the best jabber of his time which indicates to me he had some idea how to deal with jabbers .

 

Very true Mcvey. It's such a shame that past greats such as JJ are not generally appreciated today. I studied Johnson for decades and was always amazed at his ability to block, slip, jab and counter. He also could move well side to side and in and out. He just was not a dancing master which I am sure he would feel as wasted motion.

 

We can accept that Ali was bigger and faster,we do not know he was stronger.

 

Johnson would make Ali miss most of his punches. That's what being the greatest defensive hwt champion who ever lived is supposed to do correct?

 

You can't be the greatest defensive heavyweight champion who ever lived if you fought in an era when fighters were the worst offensive heavyweights ever ... compared to those who came later.

One doesn't jibe with the other.

Hell, the technique of fighters improved drastically from 1910 to the 1920s. Most of the guys from Johnson's era would get handled easily by the best fighters from the 20s, 30s and 40s.

By the time a prime Ali came around in the 1960s, it was no contest.

Johnson would be laughably easy to hit by someone like a prime Ali ... who was constantly circling and moving and landing three or four punches at a clip.

It's nice to think that Johnson's "defensive skills" would translate to later, but it's not realistic.

With a prime Ali, the punches came straight, fast and hard ... and he wasn't standing in front of you waiting for you to throw a counter or tie him up ... and Johnson landing a couple punches a round wasn't going to win him any rounds.

Johnson would NEVER outpoint Ali. Not in a million years. His only chance would be to outlast him, but Ali would hit him so many times before that ever happened that there's no way it goes that long.

Johnson was one of the sport's pioneers. He was the best of his day. But he wasn't the best ever. The sport moved on after him and fighters got a lot better.

In Ali's case, A LOT better.

I've got to go.

 

Wrong. I rate Ali the best all time but in fact he was a poor textbook boxer. He had his own style that did not follow textbook boxing. This worked well against the heavy handed hwts such as Liston, Foreman, Williams and Ali would never lose to any hwt such as these. Clever boxing however WAS the way to do so. Negate his jab and counterpunch...outbox the boxer. That's the way to beat prime Ali. Both Johnson and Tunney had the skills to do so. Not saying they would beat him in a 15 round encounter but they both would put up one heck of a challenge. To be expected when all time greats fight in their primes...correct?

 

It's ludicrous. I have never read so much waffle from self proclaimed " experts " who actually know less than nothing. Ali pre exile was perpetual motion, as Chuvalo said " it was no good waiting for him to get close, because he was throwing punches as he came in, and by the time you tried to counter he'd gone again" and as far as speed and mobility goes, Johnson resembled Chuvalo more than he did Ali that's for sure. Too slow and too static to have even a clue about how to avoid Ali's shots.

He would have had more chance of " catching " aids than catching Ali's punches, simply because Ali would be throwing them when Johnson thought it was impossible to do so.