Jack Johnson vs other great heavyweights

I think JJ is one of the best heavies H2H out there, minus issues with durability. I personally think he had the style and athleticism to beat Ali as well. Happy ol' Mongoose agrees with me.

 

Why do you question his durability?

 

Johnson was not fighting to his full potential against most of the white heavy weights, as he was playing with his opponents and the fight with Jess Willard was a set up ,Johnson threw the fight. He would of been to good for Dempsey and wanted to fight Dempsey when he was heavy weight champion.l think he would of been a danger in any era of the heavy weight champions.Regards. keo.

 

A prime Ali would find a way, Ali always finds a way.

The guy was using voodoo or something...

Not sure how Johnson would deal with a massive slugger like Foreman either...

 

I am convinced the Willard fight was on the level.
Johnson tried to get Jess out of there but couldn't, the unrealistic , 45 rds scheduled distance was stipulated to give Willard every advantage over the dissipated Johnson.
Jack was in front up to the 20th rd ,from then on he knew he would lose ,because he could not budge the giant. The over hand right that knocked him out was a terrific punch, and the 37 year old Johnson was exhausted , and discouraged at that point.
Johnson was way past his best when Dempsey was King.
Jack could still make a fool of the likes of Luis Firpo in sparring ,but his wind and stamina were seriously impaired from years of riotous living, he was a," no win challenger, " for Dempsey , if he stalled through a few rounds the press would jump on Dempsey,if Dempsey blew him away early he was," shot to bits".Add to that Johnson was about as popular as Liston after Lewiston, he was no longer a factor in talks of championship fights.

 

Johnson inherantly had the style and tools to beat any heavyweight that ever lived.

I suspect that he would always have had issues with pressure fighters and technicians who could play him at his own game.

 

Mcvey you are right ,Johnson was never going to get another go at the heavy weight title as he was to unpopular and he was past his best when Dempsey was king,but the footage l have on the Willard verses Johnson fight ,shows Johnson hitting Willard at will and out boxing him easily,to me he was just carrying the fight along ,as he had done in the past many times ,until he took a dive,just like he did in the Stanley Ketchel fight, until Ketchel tried to knock him out.Regards keo.

 

Johnson made a signed confession that he threw the fight, which he sold to Nat Fleischer,I don't believe it. Neither did Fleischer
After whipping Jeffries Johnson was never in top shape again ,in fact ,he was never in anything more than passable shape.
The fact that Johnson struggled through 26 rds in the Havana sun fighting a giant,[Willard said it was," hotter than hell in there"], speaks volumes for his balls, and points to the fact that the fight was on the level to me.
As Willard said ,"if he was going to lay down I wish to hell he had done it sooner".

Willard was in the shape of his life, he was huge ,durable, and could hit very hard with his right,Jack just ran out of gas.imo.

The Ketchel fight is a curious one , no doubt Jack carried Stanley,he can clearly be seen holding him up two or three times after momentarily stunning him.
The knockdown of Johnson could very well be faked, the punch appears to land a trifle after Johnson is already going canvas- wards.
I think Jack carried Ketchel to increase the value of the movie rights ,the ko is certainly legit, Ketchel was out to the world for some time.

 

Anyone who walks into Johnson, gets a lesson in boxing imo.
Mcvey was comprehensively drubbed in three tries.

The best technician he met was probably Jeannette who managed to beat him on a foul,once in multiple tries.
George Gardner was considered a good,quick boxer ,Johnson had no difficulty with him.
Speedy Jack O Brien, made Johnson look very lethargic in their 6 rds no dec, but I don't read too much into that ,as Jack was out of shape and in no danger of losing his title.
Ali's mobility and reflexes would probably get him the dec imo.
I would not confidently pick any other champ to beat Johnson.

 

johnson was very smart,fast, and possibly he had the best defense in the hw history, he had great stamina,good hitting power and he was an old school capable to compete in strength and size with boxers post 60s.

 

Mcvey,it is good to hear your point of view, you have some very valid points.Have you heard the story that some one yelled to Johnson,the moneys in at the start of the 26th round ,because Johnson was waiting for confirmation that his money was there, before throwing the fight and the famous photo of Johnson shading his eyes from the sun ,while being counted out.No doubt you would agree that Johnson would have beaten Willard when he was in his prime. Regards keo.

 

Two things for certain...
That Jack Johnson DIDN'T throw the fight against prime Jess Willard in 1915 ...
Johnson at 37 years of age threw everything he had at Willard for 25 round.
And couldn't budge the poweful giant..Under that hot Havana sun, Johnson was
running out of energy. and in the 26th round, Willard put over a great right crossthat Kod Johnson... No SANE man who wants to throw a fight ,hits his opponent hard
for 25 rounds ,taking a risk that a blow or a cut on his opponent, could blow his
dumping the fight...No way ! Besides , why would a smart man as Johnson was ,
go 25 rounds in terrible heat, taking hard shots, not faking a ko in a couple of rounds
instead...Nosirr, Jack Johnson was kod fair and square in TWENTY SIX rounds...
ASIDE- After watching the 37 year old Lil Arthur fight Big Jess Willard for 26 rounds' there is no doubt that this 37 year old Johnson would easily whip the 37 year old Ali
of Spinks, Holmes ,Berbick vintage...What say you ?

 

I think Johnson was a very well rounded fighter, could box, was strong inside, was great at eliminating mid-range except when his opponent was breaking down ..... my only knocks are I'm not sure if his whiskers were exceptional (I don't think they were BAD), I'm not sure if he'd endure a 'Manilla'-type beating in order to win, he could get a bit tired if he tried for a KO and it didn't come, and he sometimes seemed like a guy who'd excuse himself from actually winning a fight if he felt he'd shown enough to establish he was the better boxer. But I do think that, with his versatility, Johnson coming along in any other fighters day would be a serious threat to any other fighter, and on that basic I tend to rate him in the middle of the top 15 heavies.

 

Ali said that Johnson and Marciano would have been his toughest fights.


I have studied the Ketchel knockout recently, and examined it thoroughly frame by frame. I used the best quality version I could find, which was very revealing. This is what I saw:


I believe Johnson knew the punch was coming. It is said that Ketchels cornerman yelled "NOW" right before Ketchel threw it. The way he was scanning Johnson head with a new look in his eyes was also an indication that something was about to happen. When ketchel throws the punch, while its still traveling in the air, Johnson lifts his right leg, before the punch lands! He was ready to get hit. By the time the punch got to Johnsons head, he was already on his way to the canvas. Thus the punch wasn't a perfectly clean punch. It was still an incredibly powerful punch, but I noticed that the punch ends up slipping off the top of Johnsons head after connecting with his face. The punch, although devestating, wasn't landed perfectly at all. When Johnson is on the ground, he looks up at Ketchel and points at him as if to say "oh no you didnt.". Ketchel looks over at his corner as Johnson brings himself up. You can see Ketchel giving a slight nod, and I can almost swear, a wink, to his corner. As soon as he looks back at Johnson, BOP! He gets knocked out with what looks like a right uppercut to the body, which at their different levels of height, was Ketchels head. The fact that Ketchel nods to his cornermen indicate that the punch did indeed his Johnson, and hit him hard. For if Ketchel knew the punch didn't connect well, he would not have confidently looked at his corner like that. He would have been scared for his life, but he wasn't scared. Now as Ketchel is falling, I also noticed that Johnson hits him two more times in the face on the way down. The first thing Johnson did when he fell to the ground, was look at his glove. He gets up, scrubs the teeth off, and looks on at Ketchel, in what Johnson described as one of the scariest moments in his life, for he feared he might have killed Ketchel.