Jack Johnson vs other great heavyweights

oh, and I have seen footage of Johnson "dancing" in the ring.


It was only for two seconds, but he was bouncing about just like Ali

2:05 - 12 jabs landed in a row , with the opponents guard up
2:25 - Jack Johnson "dancing" in the ring
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ntK49v_5g[/ame]

The video is ESB classics very own GreatA

 

Because he was knocked cold by Choynski, and he was downed a couple of times in his career. I'm not saying that he had a glass chin or anything, only that his punch resistance should rate a 7-8 or something like that.

Anyway I think he would have issues with a lot of the powerful, bigger pressure fighters with fast, heavy hands. Guys like Frazier, Tyson(although he might be susceptible to Johnsons shittalk), etc.

 

Johnson tried with all he had then, realising he was fading, he asked that his wife be taken out of the arena.

"By the end of the 25th,Jack Curley had made it to ringside.

Johnson leaned down and whispered to him,"Jack ,go take my wife away....Tell her I'm awful weak, and that I want her to leave".

"The bell rang ,he was slow getting off his stool.An eager Willard met him two thirds of the way across the ring and landed a long left to the face,then a hard right to the stomach.
Johnson held on.
Jack Welch separated the two men.Wilard muscled Johnson towards his corner nad slammed a left into his body,that made the Champion's legs quiver.
Then he feinted as if to hit him there again,and ,when Johnson lowered his hand to block it,Willard hurled an overhand right to his jaw.Johnson fell forward and clutched at his legs to keep from collapsing completely.
Willard kicked himself free.Johnson sprawled on his back."
As Willard's admirers climbed into the ring in celebration, Johnson's seconds helped him to his feet.
He seemed confused at first." What's the matter?" he asked,and made as if to go back at Willard.
Sam McVey stopped him,patted him on the back,draped a towel over his head.
It was all over.

" Later he issued an official statement.
His hat was off to Willard, he said, he had been beaten fairly by," youth,and condition"

"Unforgivable Blackness". by Geoffrey C Ward.
As to Johnson supposedly shading his eyes from the sun, and,keeping his legs off the hot canvas, a couple of frames later on the film, Johnson's arms and legs relaxed ,and he stretched out fully.Check out Billy Conn's position in his ko by Joe Louis, same thing.

 

Lets not forgett that between Choynski and Willard, you have a 15 year p-eriod when he was never stopped, despite fighting a ridiculous level of opposition.

 

Fair enough, like I stated numerous times, I don´t think knockdowns are necessarily chin/durability related. There are often flash knockdowns which don´t mean much. Yeah, he was knocked out, early and late in his career. Greb was stopped early in his career too, where do you rate his chin?

I agree with Frazier, I disagree with Tyson. He lacks the inside game and that´s where this fight would happen most of the time - aside of that I think Mike would be beaten before he steps into the ring, just like he would be against Ali.

 

Agreed on the inside game, but I cannot help but think that Tyson's physical strength compared to most of Johnson's opponents would make a difference there. I also see his accurate powerful combination punching really throwing JJ for a loop.

 

Hm, Johnson handled Willard quite well and Jess was probably stronger than Mike. And yeah his combinations could trouble Johnson. But like I said he would be a beaten man before entering a ring and not be up to it mentally and I don´t think he would be able to get going often enough.

 

Choynski knocked him out with a left hook to the temple.
Klondike kod Johnson with a body punch in a fight in which Johnson was described as being ," dangerously thin ,"and ,not having thimble full of victuals in his stomach".George Siler.
The next man to stop him was Willard 14 years later.Johnson was 37 years old , and went 26rds before he was stopped.
He may not have had Ali's chin,but he was not chinny , imo.

 

It is frankly amazing that Johnson was even put in the same ring as a fighter like Hains at this stage.

He was basicaly sleeping rough and weighed around the super middleweight limit. This in a fighter who was at his best nearer 200lbs, in an era when nobody did weights.

 

Put Johnson in from Louis era on and he is top-10 material at times, nondescript at other times. I am not overly impressed with his record nor with the quality of his opposition, though the latter was certainly a product of the nascent era of the modern sport.

 

Johnson fought in an era that arguably saw the most mudereous lightweight and welterweight divisions of the gloved era.

Bot were like meat grinders.

Johnsons era produced Sam Langford.

 

Klondike was down for a long count of nine, prior to Johnson's ko .
Johnson stated his best condition was for the Jeffries fight, [208lbs], as he told John L Sullivan,"Cap'n John ,if I felt any better,I would be afraid of myself ."
Johnson's weight is described as being around 167lbs at this time.

 

But the heavyweights of that era were laughable outside of their ability to absorb punishment for a paying crowd. Jeffries, with his enormous advantages of size and strength, struggling with spindly lightheavies and cruisers is alone ludicrous. McVea and Jeanette with their spastic, lunging, one-dimensional styles (but perhaps I am missing their moments of fistic genius that went unfilmed). Diminutive Tommy Burns with his one trap offense ("Let me make you come into my right hand")... ughh.

People point to McVea as some formidable opponent but on film he looks like a novice. Even Langford alluded to his one dimensional attack. And if McVea is one of the better fighters of that era, I shudder to thinks how amateurish and unskilled the 10th or 15th best heavy of that time must be.