Jack Johnson vs. Sonny Liston

Others will say Dempsey and Tunney are primitive.
I think Nelson and Wolgast look "modern", so there you go.

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you really are a funny guy!

 

:rofl LMAO

 

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GAY


And is that actually a diaper Cleveland is wearing ?

 

I think this matchup centers on the question of style, or technique. Johnson was a master of his particular style of fighting which was adopting the fencers stance and leaning back for most of the fight, holding his hands low and looking to counter. Liston was a product of the modern style of fighting which is taught today(today being a relative term...lets say from the 40's on) hands up, elbows in with more emphasis on the jab as well as more combination punching. Both were very strong so strength shouldn't be a factor. But style would be a factor...at least in my opinion. So who has the better style...Or who can impose his style on the other man more effectively? This is a question that always haunts me when mythical matchups such as this come up. Could Johnson deal with a hard consistent jab that would be coming at him many times per round? Or the follow up right and left that Sonny would be shipping to him? Would Sonny get frustrated if Jack can block most of these shots and counter? The sport was different in some ways between Johnson and Liston's time. Equipment was different. Length of bouts was different. Ruleset was different and certainly styles were different. Alot of things to consider when trying to pick a winner in a matchup such as this. I've tried a million times and I'm always changing my mind. It drives me crazy. So whose style would win? Dammned if I know!

 

Your emphasis on anatomy is both extreme and silly ... would Mike Weaver, Ken Norton or Cleveland Williams have defeated Joe Frazier ? To diss a fighter because you don't like his body reeks of ignorance. By all accounts Hart was a Gatti of his day and that is to be respected ..

 

You obviously know little about Johnson, his opposition or his career .. Jack Blackburn, trainer of Joe Louis, disliked Johnson w a passion but gave him all the credit in the world as a fighter ... considering that Blackburn came from that era and crafted Joe Louis was Louis a caveman as well ? If not where did Blackburn develop the knowledge to mold him ?

 

**** yeah, those dudes were shredded!

 

Seamus

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Tommy "Mother of 15" Burns

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Marvin "The Slob" Hart

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Bob "Bandy-Legged" Fitzsimmons

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Jess "Old Alfalfa Farmer" Willard

 

I am a notorious Liston critic, but Liston would win. I can say that easily too. It takes far too much imagination to picture Johnson winning or sustainably out-boxing Liston. The thing is, there are two types of defensive fighters. Those that are slick and fight in the pocket, and those that more mover types. Obviously this is a gross simplification of something far more complex within boxing. The point is that Liston seems to suffer more so against the mover types than the pocket type defensive fighters. Maybe a rough analysis since Liston lost to the mover type (Ali) and not the more pocket oriented counter-punch types (Machen, Folley), and the mover happened to be the GOAT HW. I still think it tends to be more true.

Liston middle round KO.

 

First of all, one trainer giving credit to an other proves nothing. We've gone over that a myriad of times on ESB. Steward claims Wladimir Klitschko is better than Lennox Lewis, George Foreman claims Lennox Lewis would beat any heavyweight in history, etc, etc.

Second, Blackburn was judging completely off of 20 year old memories, which basically means he was giving an emotion-based opinion. Memories that old are completely unreliable and are reshaped over the years by your brain, depending on your feeling about them.

 

20-year memories are not "completely unreliable". Especially concerning the abilities or character of a person you were acquainted with over a long period.

 

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