Jack Johnson vs Sonny Liston

I've been informed the resident hater is still attempting to reply to me.And still cannot read,my post stated "the best man Jeffries beat,not no hopers.I am struggling with an unfamiliar lap top as my pc has gone down.I put this moron on ignore,but ,such is his lack of intelligence,he still

persists in trying to goad me.I am gratified that other posters have seen him for the phobic hater he is.A F C C

 

The problem with playing the long game is that you must first survive the short game. Much better fighting machines than the amateur, uncommitted Willard were not able to do this against Liston.

 

Johnson moved back/foreward effectively in straight lines, liked to tie his (shorter) boxers up often.
Liston would confuse and brake him by that long heavy jab alone.

 

Willard was 34 against Johnson and hadn't fought in a year. Up until the very end, Liston in his late 30's (not too much older than Willard) was very active and frankly beating better opposition. I will take old Liston to stop the hapless Willard in 6.

 

Johnson also beat Jim Jefferies in 1910.

 

How did Johnson beat those taller than himself eg
Kaufman, McCormick,Felix,Russell,Griffin, Klondike,Lang,Moran,Martin,Ferguson.

 

I just watched round one, there are few punches being throw by Johnson. His style was he didn't like to be hit, defense first. To say he would adjust his pace in shorter match doesn't match news write ups of shorter fighter where he was booed for lack of action. Liston gives no quarter, you cannot breeze through rounds vs him. - Mendoza

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You said that. I don't think a defensive fighter who lacks KO power, and doesn't throw many punches can beat Liston. Johnson's best stuff is inside, and Liston would crush him there. Liston was too active, too powerful and had too much range and skill. I also think Johnson's ring record vs guys who can punch that were in their prime is suspect. As I said he lost to Choysnki, Hart and Willard. Also Klondike and although it was just a 4rd exhibition match was knocked silly by GunBoat Smith. While these guys could punch they were not in Liston's class. - Mendoza


Johnson's guard is low and his feet were often stationary. This is target practice for anyone with a decent left jab - Mendoza

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Are you watching the game fight as me? If I had the ability to circle the screen I'd show you all of the above flaws. Johnson isn't grappling big men, or Liston. That worked for him vs the very unskilled, old and small. - Mendoza


Johnson was in fact out jabbed by a shorter man giving up 40 pounds in Jack O'Brien. It happened, can you tell me why? - Mendoza

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WRONG! Primary account said O'Brien was the better. This wasn't a meaningless fight at all, it was Johnson's first title defense. You can not dismiss that O'Brien a shorter and much lighter man out jabbed Johnson.

The New York Sun, Wilkes-Barre Times Leader, and Washington Herald had O'Brien winning three rounds, with two even and the fifth round to Johnson. The Trenton Times reported that the referee stated that he thought O'Brien was the winner by a shade.

Now if Johnson had trouble with O'Brien's jab, how would he far vs Liston's? GULP. Liston had an all time jab with unreal range. Johnson is in trouble and the fact that I point something out like this makes you uncomfortable. Johnson's defense vs jabs with his guard at his weight giving up a lot of reach spells trouble for him.


I wouldn't use the word schooled Moran with his left if he only landed it 2 times in a round. I think Johnson won the fight, but Moran won some rounds, and many of the rounds are even. - Mendoza

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Now your're changing the word schooled to won comfortably. He won by just doing enough is better stated. Moran who wasn't paid a dime for this fight and was fouled along the was was certainly in this fight. To say Moran wasn't in this fight is 100% False. Yes Johnson was older, but Moran wasn't very good. Moran had already was Ko'd 3 times, lost 9 times and drew 4 times before meeting Johnson. Post this fight he went south. Johnson picked Moran for a reason. He wasn't very good.- Mendoza

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Who did Johnson KO that wasn't old, or under 185 pounds? Who? Above average power you say? That's stretching it. I do think Ali could punch with his right hand, and he certaliy hit harder than Johnson. I would say Ali had above average power. I would say Johnson had below average power by the standards of a heavyweight champion. Most before or after him hit harder. Its hardy debatable.

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Oh boy, okay do you really want me to find a single moment where Moran was winning? You're setting yourself up for a big time oops, and moving of the goal posts when I point this out and say you're wrong again. If I take time out and show you this, would you change perceptive? Make it worth my time and I'll do it. Moran won several rounds, finding a single moment of whats left on the films will be easy. This is your problem, you cannot take objective facts, you dismiss film weaknesses, you're not viewing this on how styles make fights, and your using language that doesn't come close to fitting the facts or action. I don't think you're a bad guy though. - Mendoza

 

I highly suspect fanboyism, and that's too bad because the person who said that is well researched on Johnson. That's beyond what Roger Khan might say about Dempsey. I hope he comes back and says that was just a silly statement and blames in on too much indoor activity from Covid 19. If he does, he's earned a mulligan.

 

A guy who had sat in his saloon and on his alfalfa farm for 5 years, who was so bad in training that he cut off all but the friendliest of media to observe, who was so bad in training that Stanley Ketchell wanted to coldcokk him during ring introductions and save the white race of the indignity they were about to observe... that guy.

 

Liston was a monster......but johnson was better

 

Serious question; Have you ever picked Liston to win one of these?