Jack Johnson vs Stanley Ketchel - Legit?

No a week later actually!

 

A couple of day after the fight the San Francisco Bulletin said."The popular impression was that Johnson deliberately allowed his much lighter opponent to stay on his feet long enough to make a good moving picture film,and then intentionally took a dive,before finishing him,thus assuring himself many extra thousands of dollars."
"This theory was strengthened by the statements of several of Johnson's seconds and camp members who claimed the champion told them not to worry if he were to fall or be knocked down.Also Johnson had wagered several hundred dollarsthat Ketchel would not last 13 rds,and was very confident about it ,but advised his friends not to wager on a knockout before the tenth round".
" The pictures would show how unconcerned Johnson's corner men all were when he dropped to the mat.
He practised it daily in his training quarters"The Bulletin
"Johnson could have stopped Ketchel in the second round if he had tried.He almost stopped him in the 2nd rd,causing one of the men on the moving picture platform to shout out,"not so fast Jack!"
" He again almost had Ketchel out in the tenth round but allowed and helped him to stay".

"The majority thought the knockdown was bogus" The Gazette The next day!
"Johnson's fall was unreal and stagey," W Naughton The Police Gazette The next day!
Naughton said Johnson went down clumsily with a grin on his face and he assumed Johnson was throwing the fight
and was going to stay down.
"It has been many a day since any big fight has attracted such unfavourable comment or aroused the fans ire more than this one"The Call .The next day!

"The negro so far outclasses all other heavyweights that it must be hard work to hold himself back sufficiently to make the exhibitions interesting"W.Naughton The Police Gazette. There are loads more published just days after the event casting doubts about both the authenticity of Johnsons knock down and whether he was fighting under wraps.
I wonder why people don't trouble to do some research before opening their ignorant mouths?

 

Read my latest post and the ringside accounts.

 

I like to be informed about subjects that interest me .Adam Pollack's two volume biography on Johnson is the bench mark and contains hundreds of primary sourced contemporary reports.
Ketchel and Johnson played craps later that night,Ketchel took $700 off Johnson.
ps Johnson's corner said the punch,that"knocked him down", actually missed him.

Adam Pollack has put forward the view that Johnson being knocked down by Gun Boat Smith in sparring might have been a rehearsal for the Ketchel fight. I stress might because we will never know.
I'm giving you what I have read, what you believe is up to you.

 

Sorry I don't have any post fight quotes from Ketchel who was out for over 12 minutes.Johnson got 40% of the movie rights as well as 60% of the total purse

 

Who knows ,when asked to pick a winner between Ketchel and Langford, Johnson said Ketchel hit harder, but he may have been talking out of he "money side" of his mouth .

 

Be careful, The author he's quoting has a way of picking his sources. In a previous thread where Johnson according to two books ( Papa Jack and the excellent Unforgivable Blackness ) quit vs. Klondike, the author was kind enough to post four sources, none of which remotely agreed with another! Yet he took the best one to make his subject material, and BOOM, it's in the book. See my point?

I bet the majority of the papers covering the fight felt it was not a fix, or made no mention of it. But all of those sources are conveniently left out of Mcvey's reply. HAHAHA. Several papers said Johnson was buzzed after the fight ended, and Johnson said Kethcel could hit and his jaw was still swollen. Again, he's leaving stuff out.

If it was a staged knockdown, why didn't Ketchel himself take a dive instead of the brutal punch? He was pretty much punished, marked up and mocked. You'd think he'd quit sooner! OR take the dive sooner.

Johnson was marked up by the one solid blow Ketchel landed.

If this was a fix, Johnson's career is suspect. One a fixer, always a fixer!

This was no fix. The KD was legit, and Johnson hurt and launched his best attack shortly there after. Furthermore, if they wanted to sell a fight for the movies, it could have been much more exciting than it was.

 

Source?! Ketchel's head can be seen raising up off the canvas on film before the filmed stopped. I highly doubt he was out for 12 minutes. That's a myth just like his teeth were in Johnson's glove. Johnson hit him with the other glove, the film shows this.

 

I dont have the papers handy now but shortly before he died Ketchel, while publicly pretending he wanted a rematch, admitted privately to friends that he didnt think anyone in the world could beat Johnson. In an interview given very shortly before his death he stated that he had never fully recovered from the Johnson fight, that it had taken a lot out of him, and that he suffered terrible headaches from it. Thats basically from the one punch Johnson threw in anger. It still boggles the mind how anyone can watch Johnson toy with Ketchel, literally hold him up more than once and come away thinking he was trying to end things as quick as he could.

 

I could post more reports that said the KD looked like/was probably faked.
You have made a slur on an author known for his objective integrity.Adam posted all the accounts of the first Klondike v Johnson fight I have them in front of me as I type,included are The ChicagoTimes,The ChicagoTribune The DailyInter Ocean, The Chicago Chronicle.None of them say Johnson quit.Having read all the reports Adam says.
"Regardless ,contrary to the erroneous belief of some Johnson was not dropped nor did he quit.Given what we later came to learn about Johnson's survival skills it is likely that he would have lasted the full 6 rounds and lost a decision had the Police not interfered". He ascribed Johnson fading to his," lack of weight,inadequate nutrition and lack of proper training that lead to early fatigue".
The most famous referee of the day George Siler was ringside and he said," Johnson did not have a thimbleful of victuals in his stomach".So sorry, your hate agenda fails miserably yet again.


Adam didn't make those quotes up about the Ketchel fight nor cherry pick them, they came for contemporary ringside reports THE NEXT DAY.And the majority of them felt Johnson was boxing under wraps and that the KD looked strange,*****,weird, fishy,and used many other adjectives to describe it .Sorry if it doesn't fit in with your fairy tale .
" The story of the fix came after Ketchel's death"
Wrong! It came out the day after the fight!

It's quite amazing what bigoted hate can do to a man!