jack johnson vs wladimir klitschko

ok.

I do agree that Vlad has improved, and once we see him finish his career (passing or failing more tests) and see where some of his oponents end up, i think it will be easier to pick. He does has a good jab. Though contrary to popular opinion, the jab is not that unusual for johnson to deal with. Willard is not as far removed from Vlad as people seem to think, though i agree that offensively,Wlad does ask more questions and did have probably a faster and harder jab. It is conceiverable though that Willard at 230 plus pounds and just as big as Wlad hit every bit as hard. Unlike Vlad his uppercut actually killed a person! Willard Ko d old Jack, but it certainly wasnt from the first punch landed. I think it only fair to consider that Vlad would need to land quite a bit before he put Jack away.

I am not sure what you are referring to here. Do you mean the Tua fight? Because as i understand, Ruiz didnt employ the bearhug and punch tactics until after the Tua fight.

Or did you mean Jones Jr where Ruiz was outboxed and made to look rather silly (oops). Well i think we can both agree that Johnson beats Ruiz? And stylistically i dont think Jones or Vlad are alike. I am in a minority here, but i actually wouldnt mind seeing Ruiz against a klitchsko brother.
In fairness to johnson, while he fought and dominated some middleweights, he also fought plenty of big fighters also. Willard Jeffries fliynn kauffman Moran and ross were all decent sized heavyweights, certainly above the light heavy limit. This is not including his pre title big heavyweights.

 

I did not see Johnson clinching or wrestling as often vs. Willard. Besides Wlad has a very active jab and moves his feet much better in comparison to Willard. There is little clinching in a Wlad fight unless he wants it.

Johnson gets hit plenty of film from guys like Moran. If a good jabber like O'brien could land his jab, I reckon Wlad could do the same. The one solid punch Ketchel landed floored Johnson and clearly stung him a bit to the point where he had to roll over and brace himself to get up. You can't get away with a low guard, uneven punch out put and sometimes a stationary stance vs a much taller and longer skilled boxer with a high punch out put.

 

You are entitled to put your views,but a question,given that Moran had a dangerous right hand wallop [Mary Ann] ,31 kos in 35 wins , and that you state Moran hit Johnson plenty, and in a 20 rd fight .
Given that Johnson scaled 221lbs for that fight, at least 13 lbs over his optimum weight.
Given that you say Johnson had a weak chin.
.How come Moran, at no time had Johnson in any danger of being knocked down or even staggered him?
On the film , you can see Moran land his pet punch ,Johnson ,steps back ,grins, and applauds him.
How do you account for this?

 

Moran had a dangerous right hand wallop? Really? Who did he stop prior to meeting Johnson? Most of the best " white hopes " Moran fought either beat him or went the distance with him. Moran's Ko's came from easy opposition. Check the record and you'll see. Go ahead show me a top fighter Moran stopped prior to Johnson. This ought to be a hoot.

The reason Moran was picked by Johnson is because he want the distance with the same people Johnson had already fought, while losing to better white hopes in McCarty and Gunboat Smith.

Also, lets stop fact bending here. Moran was 21-6-2 when he meet Johnson. That does not sound too impressive to me, In fact it was not. Moran's carrer KO Ratio is 44.93%.

I have seen the almost all of the 20 rounds of Johnson vs Moran, have you? I think not. Moran lands his share on Johnson's vaunted defense, and he was nothing special. Not even Johnson's pinching of the biceps could prevent Moran from getting the better on the outside. Again, I urge you to watch the films. Johnson did his best work on inside, and barely edged this fight.

Moran would not be in the top ten today.

 

If you refuse to accept that Moran was a hard right hand puncher , this debate can go nowhere.
Who did Ron Lyle ko?
Who did Mac Foster ko?
Who did Earnie Shavers ko ,for that matter? Not punchers?
I have told you before ,I have seen the Moran Johnson fight.
You did not answer my question about why Moran could not hurt Johnson ,so I think this is finished.
By the way you don't pinch the biceps you grasp them and apply pressure ,likewise over the tendons in the upper forearms.

 

Let's not spin off into tangents. You do this all to often. Unlike Lyle or Shavers, we saw their power on film. This is not the case with Moran in his filmed fights. To compare Moran as a puncher with Shavers or Lyle is stretching beyond the point of objective credibility.You asked me about Moran's power and I set the record straight.

My point is Moran was not a big puncher, and his KO's came from weak opposition for the most part. I backed that up with facts, and you won't even go to show me an impressive KO win for Moran prior to meeting Johnson. I also showed you that Moran's Ko's percentage for his career is 44.93%.

I don't think Moran hit harder than Ketchel. In fact Battling Johnson impressed me more on film as a puncher as he made Mcvey wince from blows. Moran landed his share on Jack Johnson form boxing, not slugging. The applaud punch you refer to was hardly a big shot. I think you need to see it again.

I urge you to look at Moran's record with honesty and objectively and watch the films. He was not a big puncher.

 

Johnson wins via mid-late round TKO.

 

You set no record straight you said Moran was not a hard right hand puncher ,and to reinforce this you said his kos were over weaker opposition,isnt that the case with everyone?
I cited the names I did ,to illustrate that several recognized big punchers ,had the vast majority of their kos over second tier opponents.
How many filmed fights of Moran are there to judge his power on?
About with Willard who had a top chin and was in safety first mode ,as it was a no decision fight,and Johnson , you judge Moran's power on this?
You have never seen Jim Jeffries ko any one, yet you confidently predict he was a top notch puncher,I dont think there is any point in continuing with this.

 

Yes, I set the record straight that Moran has a career KO percentage of 44.9%, and stopped no one of note prior to meeting Johnson. :deal

I also stated he took the better fighters the distance or lost. Moran was not a big puncher.:deal

I also stated that Moran's power does not impress on film in both of his filmed fights.:deal

Essentially Moran was a fringe contender type ( record backs this up ) who lost to a few white hopes, and only got a title shot because the better fighters were denied the opportunity to fight for Johnson's crown. Yet Moran was very competitive with a slightly past his prime and over weight Johnson.

Just because someone has a nickname doesn't make him great.

And you're wrong again, I have seen Jeffries stop an opponent.

 

Johnson was the better more skilled fighter,but he'd have problems with Vladimir's size advantages. Putting my neck out here,but I'll say Johnson on a split one.

 

Was it a middle , or supermiddleweight?

 

Good lord, Johnson was facing tiny neanderthals. No ****, he looked skilled. It"s like the kinda fugly chick who hangs around fat chicks to look super hot.

Wlad KO5

 

Wlad would have a field day with Johnson, kind of similar to his fights with Byrd. If he doesn't knock him out, he will win by shutout over 12 rounds.