Jack Johnson's Chin?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jul 9, 2010.


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  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    What's being left out of this dispute was that like a Floyd Mayweather, a prime Wilfredo Benitez, Whitaker or Jones Jr. , JOnson was a defensive master ... he was by ALL accounts near impossible to hit flush and often ... there is little doubt his chin was sturdy enough because in all those fights against very tough, often large competition, he held up .. Moran was a good right hand pnchr and we have all seen the shots he landed and Jack took ... I would hardly cal his chin a liability, just not his strongest point ...
     
    he grant, Jul 12, 2010
    he grant, Jul 12, 2010
    #31
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    So would I. While there are many traits that determine great heavyweights, I do think the single most important asset is durability.

    Johnson was hardly un-hittable on film or in print. In another era that docked points for excessive clinching / hitting and holding, I think Johnson would have to re-tool his game, which would make him even more vulnerable to punchers.

    On film Johnson is a better in fighter than out fighter. In my opinion, those with questionable chins are better off being out fighters.
     
    Mendoza, Jul 12, 2010
    Mendoza, Jul 12, 2010
    #32
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    When Johnson broke his arm is something only he could tell, rather like Liston and his arm injury.
    It appears a complacent, ill trained, ring rusty, Johnson bit off more than he expected, and found himself facing a very strong ,determined bruiser ,who though he lacked skill, made up for it with desire and commitment.

    Jim Johnson was six foot three, and weighed between 224 and 240lbs for his fights , In the year previous to the fight, he had engaged in 14 fights won 8 by ko including his last 4, the only man who had beaten him, during this time, was Jeanette, with 2 NWS dec a DQ and a draw, in which he floored Jeanette.There is a photo of him on CBZ. He looks a monster.

    Fifteen rounds-twenty rounds ,in that shape, Jack probably loses,but it was NOT fifteen or twenty rounds it was ten.

    It is possible that if the fight was scheduled for the longer distance ,Johnson might have roused himself a bit more, and got himself into better shape.

    In condition I think he outboxes big Jim without too much trouble, as Jeannette managed to do.

    Those who think Johnson is overated will no doubt cry ,"here we go with the excuses",but the fact remains that, after he beat Jeffries, Johnson was never again in top shape.

    Eighteen months out of the ring, coupled with his well known party lifestyle is not conducive to showing your best in a boxing ring, however limited the skill level of your opponent.

    I agree about the accumulative effect ,Johnson appears to have been exhausted at the end, with good reason, given his dissolute lifestyle.

    Johnson was 36 years old when he fought big Jim, 6 months later he took on Moran ,whom that report stated would probably have beaten him that night.Johnson ,now 37, was not in appreciably better condition at 221lbs much of it around his hips and buttocks.

    Jack won that one ,there is a clip where Moran lands a rare big punch ,and Jack steps back, and joins in the crowds applause .
     
    mcvey, Jul 13, 2010
    mcvey, Jul 13, 2010
    #33
  4. Rise Above

    Rise Above IBHOF elector Full Member

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    Anyone know what the weights were for the Jim Johnson fight ?

    Also I notice boxrec has Jim listed as 5'11 where as CBZ has him at 6'3 and does anyone know if the fight was actually scheduled for 20 rounds or 10 ?
     
    Rise Above, Jul 13, 2010
    Rise Above, Jul 13, 2010
    #34
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Given Johnson's weight 224lbs to 240lbs I beleive 6'3" is correct,the fight was scheduled for ten rds as the newspapers confirm.
     
    mcvey, Jul 13, 2010
    mcvey, Jul 13, 2010
    #35
  6. Rise Above

    Rise Above IBHOF elector Full Member

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    Thanks McVey. :good
     
    Rise Above, Jul 13, 2010
    Rise Above, Jul 13, 2010
    #36
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Did a news paper say the fight was scheduled for 10 rounds leading up to the match? We see 20 and 10. Either way, Jack Johnson was given a gift draw here. Jim Battling Johnson should have been a new champ. In fact in France they wanted to strip Jack Johnson of the championship, and let Mcvey and Langford fight for it next.
     
    Mendoza, Jul 13, 2010
    Mendoza, Jul 13, 2010
    #37
  8. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Where is the argument that Jim deserved the win come from ?
     
    he grant, Jul 13, 2010
    he grant, Jul 13, 2010
    #38
  9. Rise Above

    Rise Above IBHOF elector Full Member

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    A little off topic here guys but how would I go about trying to find newspaper articles for fights such as the Jim Jonson Jack Johnson fight or any fights from this time period ?
     
    Rise Above, Jul 13, 2010
    Rise Above, Jul 13, 2010
    #39
  10. Meast

    Meast New Member Full Member

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    Searching google newspaper archive is pretty handy, or you might wanna check where the fight was held and look at their local paper archives.
     
    Meast, Jul 13, 2010
    Meast, Jul 13, 2010
    #40
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Fair assessment, I certainly would not call his chin Johnson's strongest point either, I just wanted to know if other posters felt as I do, that his chin was servicable enough , and not a major weakness ,and , it appears that is the consensus.
     
    mcvey, Jul 13, 2010
    mcvey, Jul 13, 2010
    #41
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think it might be said ,without fear of contradiction,that your interpretation of events,suffers not a little, from a lack of objectivity.:lol:
     
    mcvey, Jul 13, 2010
    mcvey, Jul 13, 2010
    #42
  13. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Also in France where the fight took place, the pre-fight ads were for "Dix rounde". I have only ever seen 20 rounds mentioned in some(not all) pre-fight schedules in US papers. If you read the round by round reports Jack either edged it or was level. He was however the fighter in survival mode at the finish.
    The fight was scheduled for ten, let's not mislead people. Jim Johnson didn't look 6-3 in the little bit I seen of him.
     
    mattdonnellon, Jul 13, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Jul 13, 2010
    #43
  14. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You can find , with difficulty, on-line French newspapers with ringside reports but in French obviously, and mine is barely servicable. If somebody has good French, PM me and maybe we can put up a translated post, once and for all.
     
    mattdonnellon, Jul 13, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Jul 13, 2010
    #44
  15. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Johnson had a solid jaw. It was good enough not to be the primary cause of his losses. What more can you want?
     
    ChrisPontius, Jul 13, 2010
    ChrisPontius, Jul 13, 2010
    #45
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