jake lamotta vs charlie burley... why didnt it happen?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by shommel, Jun 29, 2008.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol:
     
  2. Raging B(_)LL

    Raging B(_)LL KAPOW!!! Full Member

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    That is what I said in my reply to you earlier.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well, I do like to end on a note of agreement.
     
  4. Raging B(_)LL

    Raging B(_)LL KAPOW!!! Full Member

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    Same here.

    We can always disagree without being disagreeable towards each other... that is unless the other person is a complete and utter moron of course. Thankfully, the classic forum has very few such posters in it, which is why I do most of my posting here.
     
  5. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't think LaMotta ducked Burley he fought men who beat Burley like Zivic, Bert Lytell, Holman Williams and Lloyd Marshall. I can't see LaMotta ducking Burley and his comment about Zivic was probably more done to Fritzie being more popular it could be like Trinidad saying why do I need Mosley when I have Oscar.
     
  6. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Mcgrain,


    How was Williams far past his prime if less than a year before he fought lamotta, he beat satterfield, archie moore, aaron tiger wade??? that doesnt make sense to me. If you can still beat archie moore 8 months prior, then your a very dangerous world class fighter. even after the lamotta loss, williams beat henry hall a very good fighter.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Williams was still a very good fighter when he took on LaMotta.

    But he was 6-5 over the relevant 11.

    That is not vintage Williams, and you know that.
     
  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    while Burley had a long reach and could control lamotta on the outside, he didnt have a punch(no middleweight did) to knock lamotta out or keep him from working his way in. charlie will really have to be active in this fight if he wants to beat a peak mid 40s jake lamotta. lloyd marshall was very active, but that was his style, burley liked to sit back and wait.
     
  9. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Rather than start a new thread, heres a question to the board, what was Jakes greatest win?

    The weight difference in the JL-SRR matchup brings the enormity down a notch (imo)

    He beat the talented Holman Williams

    Title-winning effort against Cerdan

    any others?
     
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    He beat a near prime Marcel Cerdan, his best win. a top 15 middleweight of all time. He floored cerdan with a left hook, then physically manhandled cerdan hurting his shoulder, then battered him for the next 9 rounds until cerdan quit. A very underated win. Lamotta was a hungry tiger that night fighting for what should have been his years ago.


    Next his Robinson: Robinson though 145lb could still beat most middleweights, in fact even when he held the middleweight title in the early 50s he only weighed around 150lb, 5 more lbs. No one had ever beaten sugar ray robinson before, the greatest, only one man ever beat him in his prime....jake lamotta. since cerdan was a more natural middleweight, i think he ranks higher but beating robinson in 1943 is a helluva accomplishment.


    Next is Holman Williams, a past his prime but still dangerous member of the black murders row, arguebably top 10 middleweight of all time. Lamotta won a close but clear decision with his strong finish.


    Next is Bert Lytell one of the best of the black murders row middleweights, who was at the top of his game when lamotta edged him.


    Fritzie Zivic, a great fighter with an ATG resume, but a natural welterweight

    Tiberio Mitri after that, he was one of the finest european middleweights of that era. 48-1 awesome record, european middleweight champ. He knocked out randy turpin in 65 seconds.



    Dauthille, Jackie Wilson, Villemain( a very underated fighter who most felt beat lamotta twice, villemain was a helluva boxer cerdan wouldnt fight him)


    So



    1. Marcel Cerdan
    2. Sugar Ray Robinson
    3. Holman Williams
    4. Bert Lytell
    5. Fritzie Zivic- not a natural middleweight
    6. Tiberio Mitri
    7. Robert Villemain
    8. Laurente Dauthille
    9. California Jackie Wilson- not really a natural middleweight, but a very good fighter
    10. Jose Basora
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    SQ, I think the Lytell wins should be above the Williams win for reason i've explained, though Williams would possibly be next. I would also have Zivic a wee bit higher and Robinson above Cerdan.
     
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Maybe ur right but I gave the benefit of the doubt to the naturally larger middles in dauthille mitri and villemain.


    Also 145lb robinson above cerdan? possibly
     
  13. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    YES, lamotta was a tough cookie and Burley was not better than Ray IMO
     
  14. Nobudius

    Nobudius Member Full Member

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    I read a newspaper account of Marshall vs. Lamotta once- apparently, Marshall was punching the snot out of the Bull & on his way to victory..... but he punched himself out due to Lamotta's uncanny ability to absorb punishment, & Jake came roaring back.

    I wish I still had a copy of it.....
     
  15. Nobudius

    Nobudius Member Full Member

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    Btw, Craig's avatar of the Dempsey & Bob Foster is fascinating. I never knew their paths crossed, & the Dempsey still had that aura as an older man