jake lamotta vs charlie burley... why didnt it happen?

That is what I said in my reply to you earlier.

 

Same here.

We can always disagree without being disagreeable towards each other... that is unless the other person is a complete and utter moron of course. Thankfully, the classic forum has very few such posters in it, which is why I do most of my posting here.

 

I don't think LaMotta ducked Burley he fought men who beat Burley like Zivic, Bert Lytell, Holman Williams and Lloyd Marshall. I can't see LaMotta ducking Burley and his comment about Zivic was probably more done to Fritzie being more popular it could be like Trinidad saying why do I need Mosley when I have Oscar.

 

Mcgrain,


How was Williams far past his prime if less than a year before he fought lamotta, he beat satterfield, archie moore, aaron tiger wade??? that doesnt make sense to me. If you can still beat archie moore 8 months prior, then your a very dangerous world class fighter. even after the lamotta loss, williams beat henry hall a very good fighter.

 

while Burley had a long reach and could control lamotta on the outside, he didnt have a punch(no middleweight did) to knock lamotta out or keep him from working his way in. charlie will really have to be active in this fight if he wants to beat a peak mid 40s jake lamotta. lloyd marshall was very active, but that was his style, burley liked to sit back and wait.

 

Rather than start a new thread, heres a question to the board, what was Jakes greatest win?

The weight difference in the JL-SRR matchup brings the enormity down a notch (imo)

He beat the talented Holman Williams

Title-winning effort against Cerdan

any others?

 

He beat a near prime Marcel Cerdan, his best win. a top 15 middleweight of all time. He floored cerdan with a left hook, then physically manhandled cerdan hurting his shoulder, then battered him for the next 9 rounds until cerdan quit. A very underated win. Lamotta was a hungry tiger that night fighting for what should have been his years ago.


Next his Robinson: Robinson though 145lb could still beat most middleweights, in fact even when he held the middleweight title in the early 50s he only weighed around 150lb, 5 more lbs. No one had ever beaten sugar ray robinson before, the greatest, only one man ever beat him in his prime....jake lamotta. since cerdan was a more natural middleweight, i think he ranks higher but beating robinson in 1943 is a helluva accomplishment.


Next is Holman Williams, a past his prime but still dangerous member of the black murders row, arguebably top 10 middleweight of all time. Lamotta won a close but clear decision with his strong finish.


Next is Bert Lytell one of the best of the black murders row middleweights, who was at the top of his game when lamotta edged him.


Fritzie Zivic, a great fighter with an ATG resume, but a natural welterweight

Tiberio Mitri after that, he was one of the finest european middleweights of that era. 48-1 awesome record, european middleweight champ. He knocked out randy turpin in 65 seconds.



Dauthille, Jackie Wilson, Villemain( a very underated fighter who most felt beat lamotta twice, villemain was a helluva boxer cerdan wouldnt fight him)


So



1. Marcel Cerdan
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Holman Williams
4. Bert Lytell
5. Fritzie Zivic- not a natural middleweight
6. Tiberio Mitri
7. Robert Villemain
8. Laurente Dauthille
9. California Jackie Wilson- not really a natural middleweight, but a very good fighter
10. Jose Basora

 

Maybe ur right but I gave the benefit of the doubt to the naturally larger middles in dauthille mitri and villemain.


Also 145lb robinson above cerdan? possibly

 

YES, lamotta was a tough cookie and Burley was not better than Ray IMO

 

I read a newspaper account of Marshall vs. Lamotta once- apparently, Marshall was punching the snot out of the Bull & on his way to victory..... but he punched himself out due to Lamotta's uncanny ability to absorb punishment, & Jake came roaring back.

I wish I still had a copy of it.....

 

Btw, Craig's avatar of the Dempsey & Bob Foster is fascinating. I never knew their paths crossed, & the Dempsey still had that aura as an older man