I have been reading Jim Carney's superb biography on Jim Jeffries, and it brings up some interesting points, regarding Corbett and Fitzsimmons. Corbett is a fighter I have never rated highly but reading the reports of the Jeffries fight (first one), I had to admit, I was quite impressed how good he must have performed. Indeed Corbett often cited it as one of his best displays. I feel that Corbett became a more sturdy fighter and more physically robust and stronger. Now Fitzsimmons at this time was the most logical contender, having just beaten Gus Ruhlin and Tom Sharkey in impressive displays. He actually secured a title fight with Jeffries but strangely retired. Now Fitz at this time actually thought he might have to fight Corbett to secure his rematch with Jeffries, but either man was reluctant to fight, as it would provide a good payday to the other. Now lets say these two were matched for early 1901, and Corbett came in with the same form he showed against Jeffries. How do you see it going?
I reckon Corbett could have nicked it. The most skilled heavyweight champion, before Jack Johnson,of course.
If I were betting I'd bet Bob, but it's really a hard call. There was a very strong consensus that Corbett's form was much better 1900 than it had been against Fitzsimmons in 1897. Still, Bob was the more rugged and harder hitting fighter, and that counted a lot in longer fights.
The re-match could have gone either way. Much depends on he scheduled distance and the ring size. Prior to meeting Fitzsimmons in 1897, Corbett's ring record was something like 59-0-3 if you allow for news decsions in 4 round matches. Read below from my archives: Many of the records of the old timers are incomplete. This is especially true of fighters who fought in the 1800's. Below is a list of three combined reported sources for Corbett's ring record. Based on the combined lists Corbett had 64 fights! ** the 59-0-3 record assumes the W vs Peter Jackson as listed is really a draw. Otherwise its 60-0-2** Be sure to read the key at the bottom of the page. Many W's are really Ko wins for Corbett. Appendix 1 FOR THE RECORD: The following is the complete list of bouts for James J. Corbett and Charles Mitchell according to the Ocala (Fla.) Evening Star of Feb. 2, 1894. Additional results from the Ring Record Book and Boxing's Top 100 haw been included on this list. In some cases dates, first names and other information is not available. JAMES J. CORBETT: San Francisco, Daw Eiseman, two rounds, W San Francisco, Jim Hare, four rounds, W San Francisco, Ed Siossen, three rounds, W San Francisco, Jim McCarty, three rounds, W San Francisco, Joe Chosinski, one round, W, (a) San Francisco, Bob McCord, one round, W San Francisco, Billy Welch, eight rounds, W San Francisco, George Maxwell, two rounds, W San Francisco, Tom Pollard, four rounds, W San Francisco , John Dwyer, one round, W San Francisco, Ed Rose, eight rounds, W San Francisco, L.R. Fulda, four rounds, W San Francisco, Jack Burke, eight rounds, draw, (8-27-88 ) San Francisco, Mike Brennan, eight rounds, W San Francisco, Con Riordan, two rounds, W San Francisco, Captain James H. Daley (also Daily), 4 rounds, W San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, four rounds, W, (5-30-89) (a) Salt Lake City, Frank Smith, sewn rounds, W Salt Lake City, Duncan McDonald, eight rounds, W , (b) San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, three rounds (some sources say four), W, (7-15-89) San Francisco, Martin Costello, four rounds, W San Francisco, George Atkinson, three rounds, W San Francisco, Prof. William Miller, six rounds, W San Francisco, Larry SUlliwn, two rounds, W San Francisco, Frank Glowr, four rounds, W, (6-30-88 (c) San Francisco, John Donaldson, eight rounds, W Portland, Ore., Daw Campbell, 10 rounds, W, (7-29-89) (d) San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, 27 rounds, W, (6-5-89) (a) New Orleans, Jake Kilrain, six rounds, W, (2-18-90) Brooklyn, Dominic McCaffery, four rounds, W, (4-14-90) San Francisco, Peter Jackson, 61 rounds, W, (5-2-91) (e) Milwaukee, Ed Kinney, four rounds, W, (10-8-91) Philadelphia, Matt Donovan, one round, W, (3-20-89) (f) New Jersey, Peter Courtney, six rounds, W, (9-7-94) Philadelphia, John McVey, three rounds, W, (1-4-95) (g) Philadelphia, Bubbles Davis, three rounds, W Philadelphia, Bob Caffrey, four rounds, W Philadelphia, Sailor Brown, two rounds, W Philadelphia, Jack Brady, three rounds, W Philadelphia, Mike Moneghan, two rounds, W Philadelphia, Joe Godfrey, three rounds, W Philadelphia, Jack Haughey, one rounds, W Philadelphia, Jack Langdon, two rounds, W Philadelphia, Denny Kelleher, four rounds, W Philadelphia, Joe Wilson, three rounds, W Madison Square Garden, William Speflings, one round, W, (h) Madison Square Garden, Bob Goffey, one round, W Madison Square Garden, Joe Lannon, th.-ee rounds, W, (i) Hartford, John McMahan, two rounds, W Albany, Jack McDonald, one rounds, W Columbus, Jim Hughes, two rounds, W Butte, Mont. , Jack Grace, two rounds, W San Francisco, Mike Olson, one round, W Tucson, Mike Sullivan, two rounds, W EI Paso , Jack Donnelly, two rounds, W New Orleans, John L. Sullivan, 21 rounds, W, (9-7-92) Jacksonville, Charlie Mitchell, three rounds, W, (1-25-94) New Orleans, John McVey, three rounds, W, (1-4-95) San Francisco, Tom Sharkey, four rounds, draw (6-24-96) (j) Carson City, Nev., Bob Fitzsimmons, 14 rounds, L, (3-17-97) New York, Tom Sharkey, 9 rounds, L (foul), (11-22-98 Coney Island, Jim Jeffries, 23 rounds, L, (5-11-1900) New York, Kid McCoy, five rounds, W, (8-30-1900) San Francisco, Jim Jeffries, 10 rounds, L, (8-14-03) KEY CORBETT NOTES: (a) correct spelling is Joe ChoYnSki, first fight is also called a no decision by some sources; 5­30-89, stopped by police in the fourth round; 6-5-89, stopped ChOYnski in the 27th, and 7­15-89, won four-round bout according to 100 Greatest Boxers of All Time by Bert Sugar. (b) also called a draw by some sources. (c) also called a draw by some sources. (d) called a draw after 10 rounds because Corbett failed to score a knockout as agreed. (e) called a no contest by referee Hiram Cook, no punches were thrown in the 61st round, fight took four hours and 10 minutes, also (and more reasonably) called a draw by some sources . (f) also listed as Mike Donovan and called a sparring session or exhibition by some sources. (g) site also listed as New Orleans, McVey listed as Jim and John by different sources. (h) result is similar to one reported for 2-16-92, a one-round victory o\ler one Bill Spilling in Rochester. (i) also called a no decision by some sources (j) also has 1-round KO victory o\ler Emest Roeber on 1-3-97, no site, listed as an exhibition.
He has a good record. I remember reading that a fighter ( I can't remember which one) was fighting Fitzsimmons and the newspapers mentioned that he could potentially trouble Fitz with the straight left as Jeffries and Corbett did. Now in the Jeffries bout, Corbett seemed to be a much stiffer puncher IMO and could maybe do some damage with that straight left. I also think his defence was improved and he seemed to have a very consistent defence for the first 20 rounds of the first Jeffries bout, then he slowed down. In a 20-round bout, I'd bet on Corbett but if it goes longer there is a good chance he'd tire and Fitz isn't a guy you want to be tired against.
Those fights aren't on his record for a reason. A boxer doesn't get an official win for outpointing some local alcoholic for two rounds and he shouldn't. That's pure revisionism. The record that's been handed down and endures is under 20 fights. In 1901 I take Corbett to win easily! He had nothing to lose unlike the 1st time where he had it all to lose. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2yBnAfN2-I[/ame] www.youtube.com/eslubin
eslubin Do you take your username from the 'Lubin' from Philadelphia who acted out the great fights and showed them in theaters?
In Adam's book on Jeffries he actually makes mention of a Fitz - Corbett exhibition years after their title clash ! Pretty cool ...
Corbett himself ,never claimed those fights, he told Tommy Loughran, he had only 39 fights. Put the case, you idolise a fighter ,in this instant Jim Jeffries ,Jeffries beats Corbett twice ,how can you indirectly build up Jeffries ? By inflating the records of his opponents, and, by turning exhibitions into actual fights, its all about spin and ,how desperate you are to hype your God up. The poster who has "interpreted these exhibitions against non- entities as actual fights, is the registered "Keeper Of The Flame", at the James J Jeffries Mausoleum. Agenda, agenda, agenda. Ad bloody nauseum.atsch
From In the Ring With James J. Jeffries, page 512: In late April or early May 1902 at Wood’s Gymnasium in New York, Bob Fitzsimmons and Jim Corbett sparred 3 lively and fast rounds. In the 1st round, Jim was quick, dancing around, jabbing, side-stepping and swinging. Fitz retaliated and they engaged in pretty exchanges. A Corbett left to the lips left its impression and another blow puffed up Bob’s nose, but he took it well. Jim was a little slower in the 2nd. Fitz landed a few stiff punches in the wind and Corbett clinched. On the break, he tapped Bob on the ear with a left and hit him hard in the ribs. Fitz sidestepped twice and puzzled Jim with some feints. Neither lost their heads. In the 3rd round, Jim moved well and landed on the face and mouth. Bob hit the jaw and body with his right. They went at it during the final minute with many quick blows. Corbett was puffing at the finish, while Bob seemed fresh. Citation - National Police Gazette, May 17, 1902. Personally, based on their first fight, I think in a lengthy battle, Fitzsimmons wins every time. Corbett could outbox Fitzsimmons, sure, but he couldn't outpunch him. In a long battle, Fitz catches up with Corbett, wears him down and nails him with the big one and takes him out. Fitz fought to take his opponents out, not to outbox them. This is exactly what Fitz thought too, before their fight in 1897. Quotes from In the Ring With Bob Fitzsimmons: Bob said, I have read where Corbett says that I am a tricky fighter. Perhaps I am, but the best trick I know is landing my fists on the jaw just hard enough to knock men out... f I get my right or left to any part of his pompadour head he will hit the floor very hard. I don’t think that he will get up, either. … I may see my opportunity in the first round, and then it may take me several to find his weakness. You may depend, however, that I will find his weak points. I am just as confident as ever that I will win. Ernest Roeber said, Fitz and I both concede that Corbett is clever and quick, but our man is by far the hardest hitter. He can afford to take two or three of Corbett’s blows in order to land one of his own…. Corbett’s game will probably be to spar off at long range…but…as soon as he begins to fight in real earnest Bob will keep him moving, and it will only be a matter of time before he is put out. One writer said of Fitzsimmons, His awkward position and seeming countrified way of getting about have probably made many an antagonist wonder where he got his reputation, until a fatal opening was left and there was no further awkwardness visible in the grinning Australian. His fights have been won by a knockout. … If Corbett leaves the coveted spot bare for a short second of time the fight will pass into history in ten seconds. But friends of Fitz must remember that Corbett does not leave openings, Fitz must make them. Speaking of effective punching power, Fitzsimmons said that he did not think Corbett could knock him out. Corbett can’t be such a terrible puncher. … I can’t recollect a man that he dropped with a single punch. He certainly did not knock Choynski out that way, and he put Sullivan out an inch at a time. It required about twenty of his thumps to send the big fellow to the floor. … I believe I could have settled any of these men with one crack. I also believe that I can stand as hard a punch as any fighter living. I have been soaked good and hard by some of the hardest hitters in the business, yet none of them have laid me out cold. Bob said that it was “not his style to restrain his sparring partners and make monkeys out of them that the public might think nobody could hit him.” Further explaining his training methods in preparing mentally and physically for a tough fight, Fitz said, A man must learn to take blows as well as to give them. … Corbett won’t allow any of his men to lay a glove on him, for fear people might think he was not the marvel he believes himself. I’ll show him that he can be hit just like the rest of us when we get together. Bob responded to those who said that he won by accident. “Three hundred accidents are a great many, I take it. I shall have another one of them in my next fight.” Fitzsimmons said that he was a knockout artist and was not about to stop. All three of his sparring partners said, None of us have ever known a fighter to hit with the violence and skill of Fitzsimmons, and if any one of his unrestricted blows should land anywhere on Corbett from the waist up the fight will end right there and Fitzsimmons will be dressed in street attire before Corbett comes to. An expert described Bob’s style as “peculiar” but effective. Nobody can imitate him. With his arms rigid and his head well back, he crouches low and watches for an opening. … Bob requires less latitude in which to hit than any man living… [H]e can hit a terrific jolt or bat at any distance. Everybody knows what a hook he is capable of landing. Do I think he will get in on Jim? That’s hard to say. If he does he will win the championship. Another writer opined, I think the fight is any one’s guess. It is foolish to say that Fitzsimmons can never reach Corbett. In a rally one man is as liable to be hit as the other. I think Fitzsimmons is too strong and game a man to be kept long at arm’s length. When he decides on infighting at short range he is a knocker-out. I believe he could knock down any man in the world with a blow delivered at a distance of six inches. Offering his observations about Fitzsimmons, W.W. Naughton said, Fitzsimmons is not a stylish boxer. … [H]e has adopted a system of his own. It is ungainly, but judging from general results it is wonderfully effective. His tactics from start to finish suggest that he is not seeking to wear a man down by constant jabbing, but rather to create an opening for one decisive smash that will end the whole business. … He courts rather than avoids a rally. I should say he was exceedingly tricky. Jack Stelzner picked Fitz, saying that Bob was stronger and could deliver the blows that count. People say that he cannot hit Corbett. They must not forget that, in order to hit Fitzsimmons, Corbett has to come close enough to do it, and when Fitzsimmons is in reach of Corbett, Corbett is in reach of Fitzsimmons, and he will get hit, and once is enough. Hickey said, Fitzsimmons will win. I don’t see how he can lose. No man was ever in better condition … He has purposely let me hit him in our bouts, and I have put in some good ones, but he did not mind them at all. Corbett may punch him a dozen times, but I don’t think he can hit hard enough to make much of an impression, as Fitzsimmons’ condition is so perfect that he will be able to recover quickly. Corbett cannot wear him out. All Fitzsimmons has to do is to land one stiff jab, long or short, and Corbett will not get on his feet. The blows of the two men are a feather to a ton. Roeber said, My money is on Fitzsimmons. … He strikes like a mule kicks. No punishment Corbett can give him can knock him out. If Fitzsimmons hits Corbett once, and he is clever enough to do it before many rounds have been fought, you will see Corbett drop and be carried to his quarters.
Wow, thanks for all this Adam. The most interesting thing about this match-up IMO is that Corbett seems to have gained some strength and was a stiffer puncher IMO, in this time period. I think this helps his cause greatly. However, I agree in a length battle Fitz would get him in the end. Unusual that, the smaller man playing the waiting game.
Problem for Corbett, with being a stiffer puncher as he got older, is that hitting hard also makes one tire faster, and it also causes one to be in range longer, for to hit hard, one needs to assert oneself, which would mean that he could also get hit more often. Corbett was more elusive when he was firing fast and moving away at the same time.
