James J Jeffries endorsements...

In Ruhlin footage he fought against hurt opponent who was no threat offensively anymore. We don't know how first rounds looked like.

 

Can we presume he moved his head in the earlier rounds? I'm not being sarcastic I don't know.

 

Neither do I, that's why I ask.

 

Reports say Ruhlin suffered what we would now call a panic attack.He stated after the fight that he never got over the first big driving left into his body which he said was low,those ringside,and the referee had no doubt the punch was legal.Ruhlin seems to have been a fighter who was a good," on top fighter,"but perhaps not such a good one when things began to go against him?

 

Exactly!

Here is Callis' all-time P4P top-10:

1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
4. Sam Langford
5. Charlie Mitchell
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Stanley Ketchel
8. Jack Dempsey
9. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
10. Harry Greb

When I first saw this list, I realized, that anything coming from Mr. Callis, should be taken with a pinch of salt!

 

I would certainly go down that road,3,5,7,8,9 would not make my top ten,P4P , but each to his own.

 

That's kind of circular logic there.

Using the fact that you disagree with his list, as evidence that he is generally wrong!

 

He is viewed as one of the greatest living historians. One historians I have chatted with say he knows as much as any three historians he knows.

Callis is high on many of the old timers. He says most people know so little about them, and he has a point.

 

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I've never said he is wrong - for the simple reason, that there's no right or wrong, when it comes to these lists. Needless to say, it's all speculation. I thought this would be obvious!

Mr. Callis is of course entitled to his opinion - just as I'm allowed to think for myself (hence the "pinch of salt"), and not simply lap up everything he says, just because he's a respected historian.

You know, it's a bit like when someone as knowledgeable as you comes on here, and claims he would favour Tommy Burns to beat Wilder, and Corbett to defeat Tua. Those are of course opinions you are entitled to express in a forum like this - just as I'm entitled to develop a natural skepticism, when it comes to what you have to say in general.

 

Of course we are all entitled to our opinions .but lets take that a stage further .If anyone said Jim Braddock say was the greatest heavyweight champion or Al McCoy or Johnny Wilson the greatest middle weight ,would you give any credence to their subsequent opinions?
I'm not a historian ,but for my part five of Callis' top ten ATG P4 P's simply do not belong there. I'm referring to
Charlie Mitchell
Jack O Brien
Non Pareil Jack Dempsey
Stanley Ketchel
Jack Dempsey
Callis has only seen clips of ,O Brien,2 fights of Ketchel and a few of Dempsey's .
O Brien never defended his lhy title, was involved in several fixed fights was ko'd twice by a middleweight ,[ in one fight the final bell saved him],the original Dempsey was a small middleweight can we really see him faring well against the 160 pounders that came after? He reigned supreme over a very small pool of talent.
For me P4P qualifiers have to either be successful in more than one weight class,or dominate a single one that is deeply loaded with talent.Some of Callis' nominees did neither. I'll put his top ten to the Forum and see if anyone agrees with me.