James J Jeffries vs Jack Johnson primes

Anything is possible. Again, I’m a huge Johnson fan both of what he accomplished and survived. I find him fascinating.

 

The problem here is he wasn't competitve until round ten ,before you stated the fight was about even after ten rounds this is just ludicrous .
You have only seen edited footage of this fight yet keep making these absurd statements.
John L Sullivan was ringside so were Corbett,Choynski ,and Fitzsimmons ,all four were huge boosters for Jeffries yet all stated Jeffries made no show.Sullivan said he was never in the fight,Corbett told Jack Jeffries they should pull him out in the 7th because"he is getting licked,"Choynski said Jeffries suffered," a mental collapse and could not do anything with Johnson".Fitz stated," Johnson could have ended it when he liked,".
So there we have Jeffries 4 biggest boosters admitting it was a one- sided massacre as the referee Tex Rickard ,and Jack London reporting ringside also both agreed .
Film shows Johnson gauging Jeffries strength and vitality by allowing himself to be pushed back ,testing Jeffries ability and letting the bigger man expend his energy to no useful effect. Satisfied he has nothing to fear he takes the intiative and begins moving Jeffries around clamping his big arms by his side with his hands and positioning him where he wants,at one stage even asking Corbett with whom he had a running and winning verbal battle where he wants him to put Jeffries?
It was a one-sided beat down and everyone but yourself admits and accepts it as such.
There are photos of Jeffries, which I have posted before, going back to his corner,he has rivulets of blood streaming down his face and body onto this trunks, and down his legs ,his face is cut up, his nose busted.
The only redeeming feature of this fight is Jeffries courage in coming up to the plate round after round and taking the punishment without a thought of quitting,something his brother wanted him to do after the 7th,they even discussed him fouling out ,but dropped the idea as they knew Jeff would never have gone for that.
Fighters have their time and if they stay too long past their time they inevitably get beat ,it happened to the best of them Sullivan, Corbett ,Fitz,Jeffries,Johnson,Dempsey,Louis,Ali,Wlad and it will continue to do so.
Try and reconcile yourself to it because you are continually making your self a laughing stock with your delusional notions of Jeffries holding Johnson even after ten rounds.After the fight Johnson praised Jeffries for his courage ,but said only one punch fromJeffries really registered with him, a left to the body in the 4th rd,
"which was about the only round he did well in".
On the train back to his home sportswriter and boxing author Fred Dartnell interviewed Jeffries ,Jeffries was understandably very low,never a very communicative man he was commendably honest on this occasion, Dartnell attempting to commiserate with Jeff pointed out the obvious fact that the man facing Johnson in Reno was not the Jeffries of old and that the prime version of the "California Grizzly Bear"would have perhaps beaten Johnson.Jeffries replied," no,no, I couldnt have beaten him,I couldn't have reached him in a thousand years".
Dartnell was writing for the Telegraph here is the quote.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...,2444977&dq=jack+johnson+james+jeffries&hl=en


Your inability to be objective on the twin subjects of James Jackson Jeffries,and John Arthur Johnson are well recorded and established as a given fact on this forum , by continuing to make these outlandish claims you do yourself no service.
Your "interpretation" of the Johnson v Ketchel fight is just about the silliest I have ever read ,everyone and his grandfather accepts that Johnson carried Ketchel,he can be seen on film twice reaching down and hoisting him upright after he has inadvertedly hit him a little too hard, saying to him at one point ,"where you going Stanley,you and me ain't finished yet".
After knocking Ketchel senseless for 12 minutes Johnson is seen casually leaning back on the ropes brushing his gloves off, looking down on the prostrate form of Stanley who is out to the world.
Your "interpretation," of this is that Johnson has to lean on the ropes because he is still buzzed from the KD blow he received and that whilst on the floor he is so groggy he has to brace himself before he can stand up.In direct contradiction of this is the undeniable fact that on arising Johnson immediately delivers a crushing ko to Ketchel ,doing so whilst, according to you still only semi conscious,a remarkable feat!
The unintentional hilarity you provided the forum with when you stated that, when watching the grainy flickering black and white film of Johnson v Ketchel ,"a black eye can plainly be seen on Johnson ,still makes me chuckle whenever I think of it.
Now you can make your selection of the probable winner of the prime Johnson v Jeffries fight, and I expect the final vote will be pretty close, but please base your prediction on the facts and do try ,for once in your history here, to be objective in making your choice,if you could manage this objectivity you might actually earn some respect here.

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83045462/1910-07-05/ed-1/seq-10/

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1910-07-05/ed-1/seq-15/
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83045433/1910-07-04/ed-1/seq-1/

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1910-07-06/ed-1/seq-10/

 

I was trying to do my best to use a modern day comparison of what it might have been like for Jeffries coming back after a sustained lay off. Even after 4 years out of the game, Vitali was still either no.1 or no.2 in the division. It's a shame Jeffries didn't have a few tune ups or have a few other fights against ranking contenders after the Johnsin fight, otherwise we might have gotten a better idea of what sort of level he was at after 6 years out of the ring

 

I agree and you have kind of convinced me Hart might have been either a bad decision combined with poor strategy ( like say Hagler vs Vito 1 ) or just a fluke .. I completely agree that he was extraordinary and was the first in the line of the Byrd/Whitaker/Hopkins tricky cagey guys that would have held up and excelled all over ..

 

Okay two questions:
1) Do you have any information that could save me time searching for the point in the extant footage where Johnson supposedly holds up Ketchel? (Not saying it didn't happen, just reserving judgment till I examine it closely myself.)

2) Why was Jeffries called "The California Grizzly Bear"? I thought he was from Ohio. (Incidentally, I live in California and there are definitely no grizzlies within several hundred miles of even the northern border. )

 

Damn, that is beyond unmistakable. I haven't watched the footage in three or four years and am kicking myself for not remembering that part more clearly.

 

Johnson can be seen holding Ketchel up in the film of the fight.
Jeffries was based in California,he had a hairy chest ,he was appreciably bigger than most of his opponents.

 

Bump.