James J. Jeffries vs. Jack Johnson

Personally I still have Johnson but Jeff of course would be more competitive than he was in 1910.

Also, Johnson’s damaging uppercut would still present as a stylistic nightmare punch even for a prime Jeffries - just imo.

 

Made a post on the topic on a different thread that sums up my thoughts on the matchup:

 

When Jack Johnson was developing during Jeffries later reign Jeffries had a much better chance of winning though its unclear what those chances were. From 1907 onwards Johnson wins fairly easily. This was the period where boxing evolved the quickest. The thinking is there will be a greater gap between generation 1 and 2 then any other generation. For fighters coming up during this time many evolved with it. Johnson was one of these guys. Before beating Munroe in 1905 Johnson had a 1-2-3 record against Jeffries opponents and they were the lower end ones. Johnson got much better but in 1905 we're in the middle of that transformation and we don't really know where he is.

It is hard to tell how good Jeffries was in 1905 because during the early 20th century the notion that Jeffries was the best HW was based on domination against fighters from the 1800s. With the exception of Munroe who Johnson also beat. Jeffries beat Munroe a little easier but the whole reason that fight was happened was allegedly Munroe knocked Jeffries out in an exhibition or did well against him. Munroe had one of the shortest careers of any top HW ever so theres not much context to be gleaned from looking at Munroe. In 1905 Jeffries while a 30 year old in his prime was mostly living off things in the 1800s. He was still a top fighter and guys he'd beaten like Fitz and Ruhlin were top fighters but we don't really know where he is either.

In 1905 Johnson was struggling with someone like Hart who I consider the worst of the elite LHW/HW combo fighters of that era. But would Hart have beaten Jeffries too before the injury? I dunno. I don't feel as strongly about it as I do with Schreck, Root and Gardner but Hart could win and so could Johnson. Would they? Its hard to say. Lets throw O Brien in with them.

Jack Johnson(and Hart) were an easier match for Jeffries then a lot the other ATG little guys because in this era a lot of the little guys had power and were far better boxers than Bob Fitzsimmons or someone who had power during Jeffries era. Jeffries at some point had no chance of outboxing Jack but Johnson might not have been able to end the fight either. Johnson would eventually lose his title after shutting Willard out over 25 rounds because he really couldn't hurt him. Jeffries in 1905 wasn't nearly as good as Willard in 1915 but he was better than Jeffries in 1910 and Johnson was worse than Johnson in 1910.


Jeffries as champ and Johnson being the top contender don't really tell us much because most of the top H2H HWs were in MW and/or LHW. Like officially Jeffries had cleaned out the American portion of the division except for Johnson. But unoffically most of the best HWs were LHWs or MWs. Johnson on paper had cleaned out the "colored" HW division by 1906 but it doesn't tell us much either because he got all the top black HWs at the best possible time he could have got them. McVea was a teenager. Jeanette had the single worst start to his career of any IBHOFer and Denver Ed Martin regressed just as radically as Jeanette improved. Jeanette was still able to defeat Johnson once in 1905. Frank Childs was small and old. So Johnsons feats tell us just as little about where he is in 1905 as those of Jeffries.

I voted Jeffries by draw decision because thus far a HW champ had never been unseated by decision except in a unifier. It wasn't firmly established that belts could change hands via decision yet. Given that and the whole racism thing I am going to say Jeffries is unlikely to be unbelted in a close fight even if he might be today. Its not imposible Armstrong had done enough to beat Jeffries in 1898 and was denied the win as well. I don't know that but it seems like a possibility.

 

if I remember right Tracey Callas, the prominent Historian rated Jeffries at No.1, or near enough. Jefferies is arguably the strongest HW in History, excluding of course that 'new' subpar Giant one. Johnson was always said to be a fine & slick boxer, both, feared competitors.

I don't know, but I think the Bull Brawler & Fighter might see it through to victory.

Consensus is always important when reveiwing the past, Adam Pollock might have an added Contemporary Documentation Filled Researched veiw on the matter, but I'll say both in form, Jefferies would get the verdict, even if it were Race Filled or not!

 

That's the winning punch pugs, the Johnson uppercut.
It would rattle Jeff's brain.
Jack Johnson by unanimous decision for me.

 

After losing in 1910, Jeffries himself, said he could never have beaten Johnson. I take it that means “ever!”

 

Jeffries style was made for Johnson....plodding forward on slow feet. His only chance was as in some of his other fights to undergo horrendous punishment, bleed all over the ring, but outlast the other guy who falls over from exhustion in the 25th round.

Johnson by UD.

 

I guess you have to ask when the sweet spot is.

If Jeffries had been a little bit clever, he could have picked Johnson off before he peaked, by fighting him when the press first demanded it.

Also as champion he could have dictated the variables.

The most likely scenario for the fight happening, in terms of the contracts and public demand, would be Jeffries fighting Johnson in place of Munro.

After that Johnson looses to Hart, and Jeffries is thinking about getting out of the game anyway.

Looking at their results vs common opposition, it is tempting to think that there is a place where Jeffries could have prevailed, but perhaps Johnson really was always wrong for him.

It is a crying shame that this fight never happened (in this context), because it was a rare opportunity to match two titans of the sport, fairly close to their respective bests.

Perhaps it could even have been a trilogy, but we can only dream.

 

Not good enough,you have to pick a winner!lol

 

I doubt that Jeffries is a top 50 strongest HW, but whatever.

I do remember Pollack quoting reviews of the Johnson-Hart affair that stated the one thing proven in the match was neither fighter was ready for Jeffries.

 

Fair enough ,prime for prime Johnson takes a close but clear decision.

1905 Jeffries edges it.