James J. Jeffries vs. Joe Frazier

"I will defend my title as heavyweight champion of the world against all comers, none barred. By this I mean black, Mexican, Indian or any other nationality without regard to color, size or nativity. I propose to be the champion of the world, not the white or the Canadian or the American or any other limited degree of champion."

I give him a lot of credit for this. Makes you think about how different the history of the sport would look if all past champions had this mindset and acted on it.

 

First 2 rounds are slightly competitive. Lots of crowd pleasing flurries and back and forth action as the two clash repeatedly at ring center digging into the body and throwing brutal hooks and uppercuts upstairs. 3rd round, Frazier's immense advantages in hand speed, defense, and technique becomes apparent as he'd beat Jeff to the punch basically every minute of every round and landing lots of crushing blows to the right side of Jeff's face. By round 6, Jeff is reduced to throwing one punch at a time, running out of energy from all the body shots, and has a completely swollen shut right eye with a bright red face. Round 8, it's just target practice but Jeff won't go down and his face is disfigured. The ref waves it off before the round ends.

 

In reading through the posts here it almost sounds like some think James J. Jeffries did not hit hard enough to hold off Joe Frazier and get a victory but Bob Fitzsimmons could because he did hit hard enough? Personally I rank James J. Jeffries much higher than Bob Fitzsimmons. I think if Oscar Bonavena could go 25 rounds with Joe Frazier and knock Joe down twice that a prime and healthy James J. Jeffries could do as much or more.

 

Jeffries lacked any dynamicism. He was an unimaginative plodder with a basic game plan and underpowered weapons.

Frazier grinds him hard, and I mean hard, with dynamic attack. What an as$kicking this would be.

 

1) One interesting question is whether Jeffries goes (heavier/lighter)X(crouched/upright). Basically, Ryan got Jeffries into the crouch because Jeffries didn't like getting hit in the body. Going low rather slowed Jeffries, so Ryan also pushed keeping Jeffries weight DOWN. After Ryan got booted from Jeffries corner (Corbett II), Delaney came in as Jeffries trainer. He gradually got Jeffries more upright, and also let Jeffries weight comeup, some. Jeffries found both that he was quicker upright , and also that, with a bit more weight, he could take body blows with less discomfort.
So -- what approach/intersect of posture and weight ought Jeffries bring to an encounter with Frazier?
2) Jeffries seemed most comfortable gradually/inexorably attritioning his opponents body. Will he be able/find ways to reach Frazier's body? Will Jeffries need to change his punch-targeting approach? If Jeff goes more for the head, should he fight taller, at more risk to his own body?

 

Then how in gods name did he accomplish what he did?

 

His competition was worse. Pretty simple.

 

If 5 feet eight and a half,185lbs Sharkey who was a crude as they come, could go a total of 45 rounds with Jeffries. Frazier might just run over him.

Fight reports of the 2nd Jeffries v Fitz fight stated 39years old 2 years inactiveFitz hit Jeffries when and where he pleased.opening deep gashes above and below his eyes and breaking his nose.
The consensus of opinion was that Jeffries only won because he was
1.12 years younger
2. 47lbs heavier

 

I would pick James J. Jeffries to win a close one, that could indeed go either way. You obviously believe Joe Frazier would beat James J. Jeffries, convincingly. I will consider the Fantasy match up again, because I do have much respect for your opinions!

 

I'm flattered . I do think Jeffries hit hard enough to hurt Frazier and floor him, but I don't think he will land often enough to get Joe out of there.
If Frazier wins it will be by tko ,he isn't koing Jeffries.
Frazier was an attrition puncher who wore you down.Jeffries ,whatever his shortcomings was extremely durable.

 

Fitz had bad hands and he did not wear plaster of paris ,he used to ask permission to wear extra gauze.
The plaster of paris trick was tried by Sports Illustrated they bandaged Cleveland Williams hands moistened the bandages and had him hit the heavy bag the powder disintegrated,this blew the BS about Dempsey having it on his bandages against Willard out of the water.
Fitz's hand were carefully examined in the ring by Jeffries before the fight started as Pollack stated.

Sharkey gave Jeffries life and death in their second fight despite fighting with a damaged ribs and a dislocated arm and a broken finger. Jeffries arm injury was treated before the fight and he was pronounced fit I find it a convenient excuse which he pulled out of the hat after the fight,before it he stated he was in top shape

 

Not to get off-topic, but did Bob fight Sharkey before or after Jeffries fought Sharkey?

 

I like Frazier here. Dont know why, but I do.

 

Excellent question. Fitzsimmons legitimately KO'd Sharkey in their first fight, but was DQ'd by crooked ref Wyatt Earp. That was 1896 before Jeffries fought Sharkey. Sharkey subsequently fought Jeffrie in 2 matches, in 1898 and then 1899. Since his second loss to Jeffries in 1899 Sharkey had a run of wins - but then was stopped by Gus Ruhlin in 1900 via TKO in round 14 or 15. Later in the same year, Sharkey rematched Fitzsimmons and was flattened by Fitz in just 2 rounds. That rematch victory potentially put Fitz in line for a rematch with Jeffries but it didn't happen until 2 years later in 1902. By then, Fitz was 2 years inactive, not having fought since the Sharkey rematch in 1900.