james j jeffries

Hmmmmmm.

What are the rules?

 

In a modern fight, I'll take Liston by decision.

 

Then its basicaly 1-1.

 

I'm still going with Jeffries, 2-0, as long as he understands the rules ahead of time and trains (and is properly prepared) accordingly.

 

Jeffries breaks his jaw.

 

Jeffries is not Marty Marshall....

 

Jeffries 2-0

 

Why is that? How do we know Liston couldnt go 25 rds,given adequate preparation?

Jeffries NEVER went further.
Jeffries only beat ONE man of 200lbs who could be classed anywhere near a first rank fighter of his time.
Jeffries beat ONE other first rank fighter in his prime,and he was 5 foot 9 inches tall and weighed 183lbs.and went 45rds in two fights with him.
Liston never met a fighter as durable as Jeffries.

Boxing ability Liston.
Power Liston.
Chin Jeffries by a shade, he was never dropped ,but never met a man Listons size who could hit.

 

Haha, i was just kidding with my post.

He still breaks something though.

 

Liston was a lot better at wrestling his way out and creating space for his hook than most modern boxers. He was also incredibly strong. I've always considered Liston a particularly tricky opponent for Jeffries for these reasons (and because Liston was an excellent technical fighter with a great jab and lots of power).

It's inaccurate to say that Jeffries never faced a big 200+ pound puncher. It happened at the tail end of his career, but his fight with Johnson was just that. Sure he got KO'd, but he was weight drained and shot and he STILL absorbed a massive beating from Johnson before going down. Take a look at some of those uppercuts he took. :blood

The reason that I think Janitor is picking each man under his own rules is not so much the distance (Liston had very good stamina) as the fact that the refs were tolerant of a LOT of hitting, holding, wrestling and mugging. And while Liston is (as I pointed out) incredibly strong, Jeffries' technique on the inside was nearly unmatched. I wouldn't go so far as to say it was a different sport, but the gulf in rules between Jeffries' era and Liston's is wider than Liston's era compared to modern amateur boxing. For the record, I'd also pick Johnson to tie Liston into knots on the inside.

There are two scenarios. Either:

1) It turns out that Jeffries and Johnson had trouble with smaller men because they really DID have crappy chins and zero athleticism. If so, Liston by KO.

2) Jeffries and Johnson weren't just lumbering, clumsy behemoths who were good for their time but lacked the athleticism of "modern" superheavyweights like Liston. If this is the case, Jeffries (and Johnson, incidentally) by the infighting equivalent of Calzaghe/Lacy.

 

I excluded Jeffries comeback with Johnson for OBVIOUS reasons,otherwise ,were I so inclined I could say the biggest man Jeffries faced beat the snot out of him.
Jeffries lasted so long as he did against Johnson because Johnson LET HIM , he was having a good time in there it was pay back day.
If Jeffries technique was unmatched on the inside how come it took him so long to get rid of smaller men men ?
1 past their prime?.
2 up to nearly 50lbs lighter?
3 And in the case of Sharkey fight nearly on even terms in both fights?

You over simplify,there are many scenarios here ,
1 maybe Jeffries had so much trouble with smaller men was because he was not quite as good as he has been painted.
2 maybe IF those men ie Corbett and Fitz had been in their PRIME he would not have won.
3 maybe his 2nd fight with Fitz would have been stopped and awarded to Fitz on a tko

This is about Jeffries not Johnson ,but Jeffries had a better chin than Johnson,I think we can take that as a given.
I dont accept that Johnson had trouble with smaller men,make your own mind up an bout the Ketchel fight.
I dont think liston used his strength much inside,notable exceptions being his two one rounders with Floyd.

Quick summary , Jeffries normally used his strength ,size ,weight,and durability to wear down his smaller ,older opponents,meanwhile absorbing copious amounts of punishment unflinchingly.
That is NOT a good idea against man who is near equal in size, weight and strength and who has the edge over you in power,factor in an 84in jab,and it could be a long painful night ,before the referee comes to your rescue.

 

Liston longest fight Liston had was 12 rounds, and he was flirting with a DQ in that one. Could he double that?

I think team Liston knew something about there man, as he was scheduled to go 10 rounds a lot. While Liston's stamina looked good to me in the Machen fight, Machen was on the defensive for much of the evening. Liston fought that one at his pace.

To say Liston was never tested in a hard 10 round fight is a vs. a ranked guy is fair statement.

To go 20 or 25 rounds requires mental toughness. While Liston was physically gifted, was he really mentally tough? Not really. As I mentioned before, he fouled when he was frustrated.

Like Tyson, Liston was an intimidator, and somewhat of a front runner. When things didn't go Sonny's way, he'd foul, cheat ( some fighters claimed he put stuff on his gloves ), or some might say would take a dive. Fans might be surprised to note that Liston has problems with cuts in quite a few fights too.

In fantasy fights vs all timers, I often pick Liston to win early, and seldom pick him late. I pick him over smaller guys, guys with suspect chins vs. punchers, and guys with the wrong style to face him.

Liston isn't going to bowl over Jeffries. Jeffires is bigger, faster, and in my opinion would have more left in his tank mentally and physically in the later rounds.