James J Jeffries

Your contention thatJeffries had good defence is indefensible he didn't , that's the bottom line.
You have no argument just fan boy adoration.
Apart from AdamPollack, and possibly Pugguy, I'll back my knowledge of Jeffries with any poster here.

 

I didn't say that Jeffries had a good defense. I said that it's unclear how good his defense was. I think it's easily defensible when we don't have a single fight from his prime on the tape.

So now I am Jeffries fan boy? Don't be ridiculous, I don't worship fighters who lived 100 years before me who I can't even watch. I simply don't see enough evidences on either side to claim such a strong opinions like you do. I think I'm a bit more objective in this case if anything.

I'd definitely take BitPlayerVesti and mattdonnellon opinions about this era over yours. Unlike you, they don't select reports to back up any agenda and they are willing to share anything they found about given subject. They are also willing to admit they could be wrong or that they don't know something.

You don't have half of their value as a poster. You probably miss your good old friend Mendoza, he was on your level.

 

You take who and what you like, your opinions are valueless to me and always have been. I'm often wrong ,but so far you haven't proven me to be so ,you thought you saw a chance to get the knife in and it backfired on you trying to explain a thrice broken nose in a career total of 21 fights,just reduced you to a laughing stock .I am no historian ,and am very aware of my limitations. I like the posts of both those you mentioned and did not suggest I was better than either. Your cheap shot at the end of your post just about encapsulates your thinking and content.Let's agree to miss each other in future.I can learn nothing from you and you invariably dislike my content too ,so why continue?

 

Rulhin was of class. So was Jackson. Munroe was undefeated, maybe not as good as the other two. Key question which seasoned guy did Jeffries miss out on of " class "that was over 200 pounds?

 

Do you actually read the posts you reply to?
This is what I said.
"The only one of his opponents that was near 200lbs and was of class was Ruhlin199lbs".
Jackson was a washed up 37 years old alcoholic consumptive who hadnt fought for nearly6 years.the fact that you are reduced to trying to include him in your argument just emphatically indicates the paucity of it! Tom Sharkey stated that Jackson was a physical wreck and that he would have been ashamed to fight that version of him.Jeffries himself described him as," a shell". Munroe was **** ,when he later fought Johnson the boxing writers ringside remarked he didn't even know how to punch properly.Going into the Jeffries bout Munroe had fought 9 times lost 2 and drawn 2 . He got his chance by beating a totally washed up Sharkey. No way should he have been anywhere near a title fight! Which fighters did he miss that were 200lbs and class whilst he was champ? McVey,Martin ,and Johnson are the obvious three!

 

Who cares who weight Munroe was. He was over 200 lbs, and undefeated. Everyone is alcoholic Stop using that, it was common to drink back then. Jeffries drank a lot too. In fact he bragged dinking a case of whisky to cure cold or something close to it. Jackson did not enter the ring drunk, he was older you are correct but he was in shape according to reports and did fine until he was caught by Jeffries power. Jackson said he wanted to give the fans a show.

I asked you who he should have fought at or over 200 lbs, once agin who?? Martin was under that weight around 190 ,and so was Johnson around 185 - 190. So strike them form your comment. Mcvey didn't have a lot of fights and was very young. He was also an inactive fighter for some years while Jeffries was active. No who was over 200lbs " class " was there for him to fight? Second time asking.

 

Now here’s a well considered post.
Opining the lists were made by dead, flatulent, boxing people, unable to time travel to see Ali etc, many decades later.

 

Granite Chin, amazing stamina, great power and has a very good and imo underrated resume, filled with former champions and good contenders. Lock for the top 20 imo.

 

He was OK.

I would have rated him near the top if he'd beaten Johnson before he retired. But that didn't happen. Johnson and Jeffries both needed each other -- Jeffries to get into Frazier / Marciano territory, and Johnson to get into the company of Louis/Ali/Holmes. A fight between the two would have been a FOTC on the same level as Ali/Frazier I. Sadly, we'll just have to wonder. Same with Dempsey vs. Wills.

 

Had Jeffries fought and defeated Johnson in 1904 or 1905 and retire at his peak and with wins over Fitz, Corbett, Sharkey, and even a shot Jackson on the way up, I think Jeffries can very well have that argument of being in the same class as Louis or Ali. Same goes for Johnson. Had he risen up and beaten Big Jeff in 1904 to win the title and maybe even won a return, he could be in the argument as greatest of all time. IBoth are still great fighters for their era but missing that prime fight around 1904 or 5 has really taking the shine off both legend wise. There was no way a Jim Jeffries was going to comeback after 6 years out of the ring and beat Johnson. Was not going to happen. It would be like if Lewis return in 2012 or so to take on Wlad. No warm ups, stepping right into the title fight. I wonder how much stock Marciano would of loss in the ATG department had he taking that million $ offer in 1966 and taking on Ali???