James Jeffries KO loss to Johnson

Hi Buddy.
Not on board with the " passing torch " analogy , that would normally happen when a good to great older champ, loses his title to an up and coming youngster, in this case Jeffries was not the champ, had not fought for 6 years or thereabouts, add to this Johnson was 32, only 3 years younger than Jeffries, by 1910 Johnson's best days were behind him, he would only have 3 more fights before the Willard loss, they being a D/Q win over the old Jim Flynn, a dull ( by all accounts ) points win against Frank Moran, and a draw with his namesake Jim Johnson, so he was no torch holder, in the strict sense of the word, as to the fight itself, Jeffries agonised for years about coming out of retirement to " wipe the golden smile off Jack Johnson's face " as written by Jack London after witnessing the defeat of Burns, he knew the enormous task of losing 200lbs ( not going to argue about the exact weight been done too many times ) and getting back into fighting weight would be colossal, he was, as far as we can tell, or read, quite happy working his alfalfa farm, and free from the restraints of training and watching his weight , he was, by the standards of the day very wealthy, and had no lingering effects from a career that had him absorb inhuman amounts of punishment, I would imagine the last thing he wanted to do around early 1909 was to go back to training and fight again, but he succumbed to the ever incessant press, who would badger him relentlessly in print, to restore the white man's pride, and put an end to the white man's burden, he sought the advice of former champs as to whether they fought the task of beating Johnson was viable, in particular Corbert , who had an inbred hatred of Johnson that knew no bounds, so after many months of deliberation he reluctantly decided that the public and the press were right, it was his duty to dethrone Johnson and restore the white man's superiority, but the gargantuan task of losing the weight and the expectations of a whole nation weighed heavily on his balding head, so I agree that his standing in the fight was admirable, and he put up stoic resistance in trying to defeat the grinning, taunting, Johnson who I believe didn't fight flat out, and was amusing himself with the slow picking the wings off an insect approach he employed, you see Johnson wasn't only fighting Jeffries, he was taking a stand against a much, much, bigger adversary, white America, so while I am happy with the praises being sung about Jeffries, his opponent was fighting for his people, whos struggle still continues.
stay safe mr. magoo, chat soon buddy.
Mike.

 

He didn’t carry him, he just wasn’t a great finisher. Took him forever to get blown up middleweight Burns out of there.

 

The third KD was hard, Johnson landing a powerful left to send Jeffries flying through the ropes. When Jeff arose his leg dipped and he had to be assisted back to his corner. He was in very bad shape.

 

He carried Burns too, it was what Johnson did to his white opponents to humiliate them.

 

Not arguing with your core point but wasn’t Jackson well ravaged my alcoholism also - possibly already suffering from TB/Consumption also. Of course he passed on a few years after the Jeffries fight.

Also, just curious, but what’s your position on the belief that Johnson carried Jeffries? Just my opinion, but I think Johnson did carry Jeff - literally capable of ending the fight by the 4th round and thereafter.

None of that changes the facts that Jeff was too long gone and still displayed buckets of toughness and courage all the same.

 

Exactly……and the deliberate protraction was to make the fight films worthwhile for purchase and distribution also. I think Jack easily splattered Burns on the canvas TWICE in just the opening round alone.

Thereafter, it was all about twisting the knife and for the cameras.

The Ketchel fight was exactly the same. The instant Johnson found cause to end the fight, it was all over in the same instant.

Btw, I don’t think that Johnson was legitimately knocked down by Stanley but his less than graceful fall to canvas caused by his hurried evasion of Ketchel’s badly intended right hand was enough in itself to **** him off.

Johnson dead set look seriously worried that he just might’ve killed Ketchel.

 

He carried Burns too.
Anyone watching those fights objectively ,and the Ketchel one, can clearly see he is fighting under wraps,enjoying himself at the expense of his opponent.

 

Sorry to disagree ,but Johnson allowed Jeffries to push him around for a couple of rounds to test him ,after that he moved Jeffries when and where he wanted him,at one point locking the bigger mans arms and walking him backwards to his corner,saying to Corbett,"where do you want him?"

Jeffries had one big round the 4th when he landed a good body shot ,after that it was all one way traffic.
As early as the 7th round Corbett ,in Jeff's corner turned to Jeffries brother and said," he's beat". I think you need to watch a decent version of this fight,after10rounds Jeffries was bleeding from several different places and the blood was flowing down his chest and legs there are photos showing this. Jeffries took a hell of a beating without being able to respond, thoroughly brave,and thoroughly outclassed in every department except courage.
Johnson praised Jeffries courage after the fight,but said he was easier than Burns.

The fight itself proved nothing except Jeffries' bravery,and far from being disparaged as he was by the public who had built him up into some John Bunyan/ Davey Crockett figure and felt let down by him,they should have been lauding his stoicism and guts for hanging in there when he had no possible chance of victory.
Being beat up is one thing,being beaten up by a man you despise must be unbearable.

 

You’re entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts. Where exactly did Jeffries show “superior strength”? The ringside accounts tell a very different story. The San Francisco Call, the Reno Evening Gazette, and the New York Times all noted Johnson was the one manhandling Jeffries in the clinches — turning him, forcing his arms back, and breaking him down inside. Several reporters remarked how Johnson could literally steer Jeffries where he wanted in the ring.

The truth is Jeffries had nothing left to compete at that level against that caliber of fighter. His speed was gone, his stamina was gone, and the strength people romanticize simply wasn’t there against a younger, sharper, and stronger man. He could still take a punch, but that just meant Johnson had more time to methodically chop him down.

By the 15th, Johnson’s shots were terrific, but the collapse was as much from the steady accumulation and the brutal heat as from any single blow. Ringside witnesses said Jeffries “was beaten to a standstill” long before the first knockdown. That wasn’t a close, competitive fight — it was a slow, systematic dismantling that Johnson controlled from start to finish.

It’s a shame, because that film is the most memorialized footage of Jeffries we have, and it doesn’t show him well at all. By no means is it a fair historical record of what Jeffries was at his peak. It reminds me of the response so many people had watching Joe Louis challenge Ezzard Charles — that fight was the first Joe Louis bout ever televised, and countless fans who grew up hearing about Louis, reading about him, and listening to his fights on the radio came away with a poor, disappointing take on the “great” Joe Louis, as if his entire legacy had been overblown hype. In both cases, people were seeing a faded shell, not the fighter who made history.

 

Wrong again. Johnson want going to risk a potential loss by carrying anyone. The Ketchel exhibition was a fraud.

 

You can't educate pork.

 

I thought you said you were done with me? Is your lack of impulse control getting the better of you if you? I find you very hostile and rude. Please stay on topic or better yet just ignore me if I trigger you so much.