James (lights out) Toney - Is he All Wrong For Calzaghe?

Are you still high from last night?

 

Roy Jones Jr, Bernard Hopkins, Chris Eubank. Have you even seen Calzaghe resume?

 

All 3 of them were past their prime - B-Hop was still very capable, that's probably Joe's best win next to Kessler - but Roy was borderline shot and Eubank also rather shop-worn.

I think Joe's resume is a bit underrated - a lot of his title defences were, honestly, gimmick fights - but He was around for so long that He still managed to beat some solid guys. Outside of those mentioned above - Hatchet Brewer, Sakio Bika, Lacy, Woodhall, Mitchell...

...but still, I don't think it's on the level of Toney with the likes of Nunn, McCallum, Reggie Johnson, Jirov - and guys like Charles Williams, Thornton, veteran Holyfield and Iran Barkley who were also better than most of the contenders that Joe was defending his WBO belt against.
I think even big Calzaghe fans, like @Greg Price99 on first page - will acknowledge, James's resume is superior and his career achievements - more impressive.

 

This can only be a fishing expedition.

There’s no way that you can be serious here.

No way.

 

What do you mean how am I not serious!?

 

I love Toney and used to pick him over Calzaghe all the time - but I have to admit - Joe is probably all wrong for Toney. I think he has the style to outwork James. Toney would definitely land and could possibly hurt Calzaghe, but I see Calzaghe winning this on pure volume and workrate.

 

Yeah, as a Calzaghe fan, Toney clearly had the superior resume & is the greater fighter p4p, even if a prime for prime contest at 168lbs would be 50/50, imo.

I have no wish to offend anyone, but speaking frankly, anyone listing RJJ as one of Joe's best 3 wins in support of his resume is either trolling or doesn't understand the significance the context of when the fight happened, has when appraising a fighters resume. Though in this instance I suspect the poster in question was answering a question very literally, in a way that wasn't relevant to the wider discussion.

Many people do underrate Calzaghe's resume, but I see it about the same as you. Age is just a number if viewed without context and Hopkins was regarded as the no.1 at LHW, it's an excellent win. Kessler fight was viewed at the time & with the benefit of hindsight as between the consensus 1 & 2 at SMW. Lacy fight was viewed at the time (and whilst it rightly isn't with hindsight, Lacy was genuinely better pre, than post Calzaghe) as 1 vs 2 at SMW. Where Joe's resume is most underrated is the number of very good, if not great, top 10 level opponents he beat, many of whom you list.

 

Well how can you be?


A version of Eubank who’d taken the fight on 11 days notice, to fight at a weight where he’d not had a win in 3 years?

A version of Roy Jones, who’d lost to Glen Johnson over 4 years earlier, and who’d not had a top level win in 5 years?

A 43 year old Hopkins?


How do they compare to beating a prime Michael Nunn?

How do they compare to beating the great Mike McCallum, who’d beaten Donald Curry, Julian Jackson, Sumbu Kalambay, Steve Collins, Herol Graham and Michael Watson etc?


Joe’s resume and best wins are nowhere near as good as James Toney’s.

Stop being silly.


You talk about a thin resume, yet Joe spent a decade fighting European level fighters, in the defence of a lightly regarded WBO belt.

So I can only assume that you must be joking with all of us.

 

Yes one could say that considering the Hopkins fight where some even thought Bernard deserve the nod. I am going to pick Toney by competitive decision. Toney was at his absolute best at 168

 

If your listing Roy Jones Jr then Evander Holyfield counts for Toney aswell, and Toney's win was more impressive that he actually stopped Holyfield being only 2nd man to do so.


Mike McCallum ---> Eubank
Evander Holyfield ---> RJJ
Michael Nunn ---> Anyone on Calzaghe's Super Middleweight resume.

Out of the names you've listed only Hopkins is on par with Toney's best wins, every other name Toney clearly trumps Calzaghe in best wins easily.

 

Woulda been a great fight because of the clash in styles. Joe would hop around and slap while Toney would
masterfully avoid most punches.

50/50, goes to a decision.

 

Greg Price99,

Who are you referring to?

 

Reid, Veit x 2, Mitchell, Brewer, Woodhall, Sika and Sheika certainly weren't all time greats, but they were there or thereabouts as top 10 in the world SMW type fighters.

If you consider in or around the top 10 in the world as a reasonable indicator of being world class, that's 8 wins over world class boxers, as his "2nd tier" wins/wins in addition to those that most people refer to as defining his resume, i.e. Hopkins, Kessler, Eubank, Lacy and RJJ.

Btw, Lacy, the versions of Eubank (maybe) and the shot RJJ (definitely) he beat, are better ranked somewhere alongside those 8 x 2nd tier wins, imo.

What I'm saying is, whilst Calzaghe's resume lacks a win over a prime ATG and lacks elite wins, even in a modern sense, outside of Hopkins and Kessler, it actually has decent depth. If we went to the trouble of ranking his, Andre Ward's and Carl Froch's (who was widely praised for his "incredible" run of back to back fights against top boxers) top 12 wins at SMW, I strongly suspect that Joe's number 6-12 wins would each be better than Ward & Froch's counterparts.

However, as I've said, p4p based on their entire respective career fights, Toney ranks higher, clearly imo.

 

Yeh Toney would toy with Calslappy quite easily to be honest. Just all wrong for that dork.

 

Lazy? I like the term energy efficient.