James Tillis stopped 11 times.

Tyson is quite the enigma, as even your own seemingly contradictory statements show: how can a fighter be "never anything more than hype" and at the same time be "a good exciting fighter...the youngest champion of all time"?

His talent was so huge, a unique combination of shocking power and blinding speed, an amalgam of a Foreman, an Ali, a Dempsey, that he could reach the top of the hill in crushing fashion without his relatively feeble psyche coming into play. The simple fact that he unified the heavy titles in a very short time speaks volumes of his dominance.

Tyson peaked early and burned out early, losing the fire and hunger on account of having conquered the summit with relative ease after many years of tremendous effort, having no one who truly loved him to share the triumphs with and thus becoming cynical, unable to adapt positively to his unique circumstances.

But during his reign he was an extremely dominant champion: men, not wet-behind-the-ears children, were defeated before entering the ring with him because he crushed so many opponents in such chilling fashion. Nonfans who knew nothing of his management team's ploys to promote young Tyson took one look at that force of nature in the ring and winced and cringed at the thought of getting hit by a Tyson hook.

Tyson was a still-developing 19 and soundly beat up a seasoned professional, as a top prospect at his age should.

 

Tyson was relatively inexperienced.

Though to be fair to Tillis, I think the inexeperienced Tyson he was facing was better than the experienced version who Razor Ruddock went the distance with.

 

These are good points. Tills vs Tyson was a close fight. 6-4 for Tyson, or 5-5 in rounds is a good card.

 

You want fighters with Heart?
Sonny Liston quit in his 2nd title defense and was KO'd in 1 Round in the rematch by Ali.

George Foreman quit against Muhammad Ali (the count was up till 9).

Roberto Duran and his famous "No Mas"

Tito Trinidad reverting to low blows when things aren't going his way and retiring from boxing everytime he loses?


What great fighter did Marciano beat in his prime?
What about Larry Holmes?
Joe Louis?
Lennox Lewis?

Tyson cleaned out the division and racked up 9 title defenses before losing to Douglas. His 9 consecutive title defenses are more than what Marciano, Dempsey, Liston, Lewis, Foreman, Holyfield, Patterson, Norton and Bowe did.

Evander fought all comers but during his prime he was always win, lose, win, lose kind of fighter. Being a 4 Time heavyweight Champ means you simply can't hold on to the title. Furthermore his resume isnt as strong as Tyson's. Tyson has the overall better body of work whereas Holyfield has greater "single" wins.

Ruddock was done after the Tyson fights. It took alot out of him, He floored Morrison because his power was still there. Look at Jeff Lacy after Calzaghe, he's looked very ordinary since. Boxing isnt a video game where you reset to the best of your ability. Some fights can take alot out of you.

You may want to revise your thinking on the matter because your bias has either clouded your judgement or perhaps you simply dont know enough about Tyson to make a fair assesement. Either way the general forum might be a better bet.

 

Thank you for supporting my arguement See, you learned something on your own. That goes to show you that Holmes was way past his best and yet people act like he was the Holmes of old. Tyson beat a shell of Lary Holmes. and i know you are not questioning my boxing knowledge. i have been around the sport along time and know my stuff, listen and you might learn something:good

 

Do you watch boxing? Well, i have to take you to school kid.
staring with Trinidad,

Oscar was a great fighter, hes a hall of famer that was 31-0 at the time., Fernando Vargas was an undefeated champion at the time, he was 20-0 and was the IBF junior middlweight champion. Yory boy campas was 56-0-50kos when Trinidad beat him. Daid reid was 14-0 and was an olympic gold medalist at the time Trinidad beat him. Oba Carr was 32-0 when Trinidad beat him.

These were all undefeated great fighters. Also, going up to middlweight and beating the Wba middlweight champion Willam Joppy was pretty impressive as well. Considering the fact that Bernard Hopkins ducked Joppy and had to wait until Trinidad wrecked him until he would actually fight him. This is oly half of the accomplishments of Trinidad.

Now Mayweather,

Diego Corrlas is a great fighter and will be inducted in the hall of fame, he was 33-0 when Floyd dominated him and stopped him. Genaro Hernandez was 38-1 at the time Floyd stopped him and was also a champion at the time. Jesus Chavez was 35-1 when Floyd stopped him and Chavez later became a champion. Jose Luis Castillio was also a great fighter and was champion when Floyd beat him. Zab Judah is a great fighter and Hatton was 43-0 when Floyd beat him. Even if these fighters are not great, they were still champions with great records when Floyd beat them.

Sweat pea Whitaker,

Azumah Nelson was 32-1 and was a champion when Pernell beat him. We all know that Julio Cesar Chavez was great and lets cut the crap, he beat Chavez and was robbed like hell. Chavez was 87-0 in that fight and was champion. James buddy Migirt was also a great champion and pea beat him twice. He went up to middlweight and beat Julio Cesar Vasquez for the junior middlweight title and Vasquez was 53-1 when pea beat him. Wlifredo Rivera was 23-0 when pea beat him. The decision in the Oscar fight was also contraversial so yeah, pea beat a lot of great champions.

Larry Holmes,

Tim Witherspoon was a good champion and was 15-0 when Homes beat him. I wouldn't consider Cooney great but he was 25-0 and Homes was the underdog in that fight. He was the first person to beat Ray Mercer and Mercer was 18-0 and later became a champion. Not only that but Holmes was well past his prime when he did it. Norton was a great fighter and Holmes had that war with him and won a split decision. He beat Shavers and Shavers was arguebally the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time. He quickly knocked out Leon Spinks that was champion. Marvis Frazier was pretty good and was 10-0 when Holmes beat him. Carl Willams was good and he was 16-0 when Holmes beat him.


These are all of fame fighters with hall of fame resumes. Thse fighers were dominate champions that beat lots of undefeated champions in thier prime, thats how they are different from Tyson. Tyson beat paper champions like Tyrell and Toney tucker that were undefeated but no where near great. Again, Tyson has never beat a great fighter in thier prime. Now you go through Tyson's resume and tell me what great fighters he beat that was great? You might as well hang it up because there is none kid. Also, tell me what makes him great.

Its laughable when people say this same thing over and over and i always tell them, i dont give credit to a man that was a 42 to 1 favorite and knocked down the underdog and act like that was an acheivement. So is that impressive to you? He was suppose to blow Douglas out like the rest of the bums that Tyson was matched up against, but yet he was dominated and exposed as a front runner with no heart. Also, the only reason why Tyson stayed there so long with Lennox is because Lennox bruised his hand so he was not hitting Tyson with full power. When he just ignored it, he knocked Tyson out. You saying that Tyson had the heart of Holmes is also laughable. Matter of fact, i dont think Tyson has ever gotten up from a knock down to win a fight. Holmes has done it plenty of times and against the hardest hitting heavyweights of all time. I think you are underestimating Larry Holmes man, you need to do research because you are way far off on that one.

No i dont get what you are doing at all. You are mentioning Tyson with great fighters as if he had the heart of a great fighter and thats nothing more than laughable in my opinion.

Are you even hearing yourself? Man you are disrespecting great fighters and champions here so be careful. Liston quit on his stool because he was getting beaten and schooled by the greatest heavyweight of all time and he was in his prime. Ali had good power because 1, the punches that you dont see is what hurt you the most Ali is simply too fast so his punches are knockout shots. Also, Ali stopped Foreman when he was in his prime so whats your point? Also, Ali was past his prime when he was beaten by Norton. Ali was in his prime when he beat Liston and we he came out of jail, he was past his prime but still a good fighter. He cleary lost some reflexes and footwork. Also, Norton being beat by Foreman is no shame at all, considering the fact that Foreman is one of the greatest heavyweights of all time and definatley a top 3 hitter. This part of your post really make me raise eyebrows about your boxing knowledge, ignorant post

See for yourself. Ali was blinded by something Liston put on his gloves because he was frustrated. Ali had to fight like that he was neve even knocked down. Dundee just washed it out and Ali continued on fighting his fight. If you have them, watch these fights.
atsch

Holyfield is the only 4 time heavyweight champion and one of the top 5 heavyweights of all time in my opinion. You have to give a man credit for coming up in weight and hanlding an undefeated power boxer puncher champion like Riddick Bowe. Also, the reason why Holyfield lost to Moorer is because he was simply having a heart attack in the ring. He could barley move and the doctors confirmed this after the fight. They said that his heart was not functioning properly. The real Evander showed up in the rematch and destroyed Morrer. Read up on your boxing history kid and you will learn these things.

I was saying that he put up a good fight and shows that he was not shot the way you are saying he is. The Tyson fights took nothing out of him.

No but it just adds on to your accomplishments and your legacy. Leon Spinks only made it to the hall of fame because he was a gold medalist. He did not accomplish much in his pro career.

 

Is that you redrooster?

Personally i think you just plain don't have any idea when Holmes prime was

As for Holmes being way past his best, i totally agree. He was declining noticably in late 83 or 84.

Going by your last sentence it looks like the Classic section is in for a great education in the coming weeks. We should be so blessed.

:good

 

Who is red rooster? im actually new on this site and im orginally from the other boxing web site.

 

I don't know whether to pick apart your post of not, there's a lot to hammer home and it might take me an hour.

 

Funtime

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Most thought Oscar won.

Tony Tucker was too, 35-0 IBF champ. Spinks 31-0 and linear etc.

With about 55 being over taxi drivers and the other over a totally washed up ex champ.

A novice.

No great fighter, dropped Trinidad.

Tyson's not great but all of these are

Superb effort.

Pure fantasy. What transpired when Tito and Hopkins actually met BTW? Let me guess, Tito was having a heart attack in the ring.

Many will tell you NONE of them are great.

"Sweat" Pea lol

Azumah was a good win but certainly no natural lightweight.

Agreed, but it wasn't peak Chavez.

Excellent wins excellent fighter, great - not sure.

Good win.

Tucker was 35-0, Spinks 31-0.

Holmes was the underdog? So much for taking me to school :roll:

You've got a real thing for numbers, well except for Tyson opponents of course.

Great for sure? Borderline?

Plenty beat Shavers, and he all but had Holmes out.

Juveniles, i can't believe you can praise a guy because he's a big 10-0.

Mate, if you claim near all of those above were great fighters we may as well put any poor mug in there. Remember he flogged the amazing Marvis Frazier and Carl Williams even better than Larry did, and they were much more seasoned and dangerous when Tyson took them on! :yikes

Since when does odds rule out something as a showing of heart? Liston quit when about a 6-1 favourite vs Clay remember?

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He came back to near KO Douglas after getting pounded, lets look at the whole story.

Where do you get this material

Star Enquirer?

Read it the other way, you've taken it wrong. "Quite ok" is a long way from the Holmes level.

Holmes was down a lot more, and Tyson never got sat on his ass by a Snipes level opponent. Tyson did not go down at all many times, even when beneficial. Snipes was no big hitter either, let alone one of the hardest.

You need to learn a lot more before making such blaise statements. What Holmes fights do you have right now to pop on at any time? What ones have you seen? Hell, you had no clue even at the odds of Holmes - Cooney.

Hell, given your list of great fighters above any bugger belongs there.

More chance of Tyson kicking your ass than Sonny kicking mine, no?

Liston was about 6-1 fave and Clay was considered cannon fodder. Think about what you are saying.

Well explain the poor KO records of Howard Davis and Sweat Pea?

My point was that i was taking your shallow attitde.

Only because the true meaning flew about 700 feet over your head.

This is the thing, i set you out the challenge to name me the exact points of this fight when Clay was blinded AND got hit by full power flush shots by Liston. You failed miserably. Can you do it given a second chance? Do YOU have the fight? :hey

Um, he didn't handle Bowe :huh

Yeah, and Tyson's pre fight coffee was drugged against Douglas too.

Go look up the Holmes - Cooney odds punk

Putting up a good fight vs MORRISON shows one to be in tip top form? Hmmmmm

So if he never beat Ali and made history for the two Ali bouts he would have still made it into the HOF? My god the replies i could give to that.

But i am not going to, you are new and i have made sure to be particularly polite to you. Well for me anyways

:good

 

I've learnt much from this thread.

Thanks for enlightening me slicksouthpaw, I have now moved Oba Carr and Yory Boy Campas ahead of Tyson in my pound-for-pound list.

 

:rofl

 

You forgot David Reid