So what's thoughts on heavyweight Toney. Blown up middle, how did he actually do as well as he did at Heavyweight!? Was it the division at the time that bad. Or would J have done pretty much good in any era? He's an enigma to me.
He doesn’t. Title win turned to a No-Contest. A lot of trash talking and his best win against a finished Holyfield. He’s tough for anyone but certainly didn’t do anything to gain a rating of any type.
I can't see how Toney warrants a rating at Heavyweight. His meaningful credentials in the division are exceedingly slim. A shot Holyfield; failed drug tests and controversial results - Good for some press coverage at the time but not a record of acclaim.
Nowhere. He never ranked higher than 3 or 4, enormously impressive for a former middle but nothing special about it really, he'd probably be in the bottom half of the bottom half of number four ranked HWs all time, and there have been hundreds of those.
Nowhere, because he's not a HW, now his contests at the weight, win or lose, only add to his overall credibility at his own weight.
Brilliant insight. Whatever he does at Heavyweight makes him a better Middleweight. Sort of puts him into perspective. Never totally dominated any of his weight divisions but has an overall aura of invincibility. Good boxer but no way rated from 175 or above. Even Middleweight and Super Middleweight he has a lot of competition for ATG and HOF status.
There were a few short eras where Light Out would have been competitive. The pre-Joe Louis 1930s and the era between James Jeffries and Jack Johnson come to mind. As far as where he ranks, I think I will defer to the legendary McGrain who simply said, "Nowhere".
Whole load of no nothings in this thread- Big James was P4P one of highest ranking guys to fight at HW. This is a fact.
yes, glad you see it for what it is, it proves he is even better than some people might credit him with, because he was Not, nor Ever should be thought of as anything more than the MW/S-MW that he was... I disagree though with he has 'a lot' of competition, as though he 'may' not be an ATG, to me there is no such thing as 'Title based achievement' ratings, as though fighters aren't great without them... there are thousands of Great Fighters who never 'achieved' Title Status... but for those who did, as Toney did too, with or without these titles, James Toney has Proved himself every inch a Great/ATG Fighter, among his equally great peers.
He rates as one of the greatest consumers of donuts in heavyweight history. And one of the least disciplined. It may not be the best legacy, but it’s a legacy nonetheless.
Obviously wasn’t his best weight class, but it’s impressive how a blown up middleweight was able to absorb punches from Heavyweights
