James Toney at light heavyweight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by heizenberg, Jan 28, 2015.

  1. heizenberg

    heizenberg Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    285
    I've heard a lot of people discredit James Toney's abilities as a light heavyweight but personally I feel he was championship caliber in this division also. Toney started fighting light heavyweight consistently after his loss to Roy Jones Jr. He first fought Montell Griffin and personally I thought he won the fight clearly but the judges gave it to Griffin. He went on to put together a number of wins looking quite good in dispatching some solid fighters he balloned up to cruiserweight and heavyweight for one fight each winning both fights easy before coming back down to light heavyweight. He easily took a part solid journey men Earl Butler, Charles Oliver and Duran Williams before going against Montell Griffin again. Once again I feel he got the short end of the stick on a decision which should've went his way. I feel he boxed a good controlled fight a little bit to controlled but still deserved the victory as he defended very well and out boxed Griffin throughout. This loss was a huge set back. This was his first time back on HBO in a while and if he had been given the decision it probably would've put him in line for a title shot. In his next fight he showed up quite heavy against an old an heavy Mike McCallum it still turned out to be a pretty good fight but both guys though still displaying great skills were overweight and sluggish. His next fight he fought a tough guy in Drake Thadzi and apparently had extreme difficulty making weight. Toney looked awful for his standards in the fight, I still feel he could've got a close decision as he was still able to fend off must of what Thadzi brought and land the cleaner the punches but Thadzi was given the nod which was a huge set back for Toney. I feel his loss to Thadzi can be much more attributed to Toney putting on too much weight and draining himself to much taking it off. I feel either of his fights with Montell Griffin were judged differently and correctly IMO his career at light heavyweight could've been much different.

    I'd like to here some of you're opinions on Toney as a light heavyweight. Do you think he was could've had the same or better success under different circumstances as a light heavyweight then he did in other weight classes? How do you think he would've done against Light Heavyweight champs of the time like Virgil Hill and Henry Maske? In a fantasy match up how do you see Toney in the same shape and forum he was in for his second fight with Montell Griffin doing against Bernard Hopkins when he beat Tarver?
     
  2. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    10,305
    Likes Received:
    544
    He was definitely still championship calibre and a good fighter and him getting the wrong end of debatable decisions against Montell were really unfortunate for him, but i wasn't that impressed with him in the Griffin fights.Certainly not relative to his pre-Jones days.

    Griffin was no more than ok as a light heavy imo.A borderline dwarf with serious physical limitations and just decent skills.Toney didn't seem as physically impressive at 175 and lacked that extra gear he had beforehand against fighters like this.

    Of course he had his bad days even then, when lesser fighters than Griffin had troubled him, but had been able to get the decision or pull away eventually.

    After the Jones fight and his effort and the controversy over his fitness there, it seems like he lost a lot of goodwill among the boxing establishment and his luck ran out with being the more protected fighter in close fights.

    I'm sure he gets the decision in both of those fights had he beat Jones, or were they 160\168 contests pre-jones.

    Other than those two solid but far from great performances there just isn't much there.His matchmaking at the time had the feeling of going through the motions a bit, with the pointless McCallum brofest fight etc Somewhat similar to what Mike Nunn was doing at the time...just chugging along without really getting into top form and looking to get back into things by really making a statement.

    Of course Toney at 70% can still beat journeymen and fringe contenders comfortably most of the time, but the Thadzi fight and subsequent inactivity killed his chances of doing anything at the weight.

    I wouldn't disagree he was still a fine fighter deep down, but i think this period of his career is rightfully criticised.He should have done more to get back into fighting top contenders regularly, instead of so many keep-busy glorified sparring sessions with lesser fighters.I'm sure there was also an element of him becoming more risk than he was worth for other top ten contenders by that time though, too.

    I'm actually quite surprised in retrospect he didn't find himself ina title shot or two anyway, even with the Griffin losses.Someone like Maske, Hill, Dm etc looking to add a perhaps faded name to their ledger...but as i said i think he burned a few too many bridges with the Jones performance.
     
  3. heizenberg

    heizenberg Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,981
    Likes Received:
    285
    I feel if one of those champions decided to try to add James Toney's name to their ledger James Toney may have had his vintage light heavyweight performances much like his performance against Jirov at cruiserweight. I could see James Toney getting his shot with any of those 3 and showing up and putting on a clinic. Perhaps if he was given the decision against Griffin in one of there fights he would've been put in line with one of them.