James Toney....ATG?

He's an ATG in my book. He'd be an ATG even if the only fight he ever had was the Holyfield fight. No one humiliated Holyfield like that.

 

I'd say so personally.

For the Roy Jones fight he admits he came him under-prepared, weight-drained and had no idea Roy was that good. He was robbed in the 2 Montel Griffin fights, even Montel says Toney won.

Wins over Barkley, Mcallum, Johnson, Nunn, Thornton, Holyfield, Jirov, Ruiz.

Awsome resume.

 

You know I still have never seen that fight but I , of course, notice that he got a TKO over Holy and that itself is pretty close to a miracle. Bowe was the only other one to ever do that and that was just mostly because Holy was tired.

 

Toney is an all time great. Not top 50, probably top 100-75.
Great resume and he could have fought in any generation.

 

What Ruiz did he beat? 2 HW roid scandals won't help him. He is definetly a ATG defensive master and counter puncher. IMHO he is ATG but not at the top of the list.

 

If you can sit thru the spanish broadcast, they have it on Youtube. The TKO came after Toney won 6 rounds out of 8 (if memory serves correct). Between the 8th and the 9th, Holy's corner says something like "show me something or I'm stopping this." Toney knocks Holy down in the 9th, and his corner throws the towel in.

It's a beautiful fight. If James had stayed this way at this weight, he could have been much more of a force in HW division. His hands are quick, he slips punches beautifully, and entertains with his antics. He sticks his tongue out at Holy, lands some good punches and points at the judges to make sure they've seen it, and even salutes when Holy is clinching him. Fun fight to watch.

Here's the youtube link to part 1 in Spanish. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQxwAi-0rw

 

Most Toney huggers will say an in shape Toney would have done this though or rate him from Middle to Holyfield fight. You have to take the whole career into account and he has some ugly blemishes.

 

So you would also say then that Roy Jones Jr and Shane Mosely are not ATG's because they have also taken steroids ?

 

John Ruiz...

 

Say goodbye to 99.4% of all ATG's.

 

Show me where he beat him. Toney came in hot because of steroids if memory serves me right. If you are on roids and beat a fighter doesn't mean you did. Steroids are considered illegal. If Toney won that fight why did he not keep the belt? He cheated plain and simple.

 

In that fight Toney whipped him..

So using your reasoning, lets take away about 50% of Roy Jones's wins and titles because he used steroids.

 

If that's what it is and can be proven then that's how it is. Toney whipped him yes but on steroids. Can you prove he would have beat him without them? No you can't. So the only logic that can be used is that he cheated to win. :deal