James Toney vs Artur Beterbiev

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by RJJFan, Jan 22, 2024.


Lights Out vs King

  1. Lights Out

    28 vote(s)
    53.8%

  2. King

    24 vote(s)
    46.2%
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  1. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Toney is wildly overrated in the Classic section. He always seems to be ahead in polls no matter the opponent. So here we have essentially a light heavy version of Tiberi who also happens to hit like a jackhammer. Classic: "duhhh yeah Toney so slick he'll win for sure".

    Beterbiev will turn Toney to coleslaw. Why? Because he doesn't load up his punches and still hits like a truck. He goes well to the body which makes slippin and slidin hard and he mixes up his punches well. His workrate is high and all the metrics are in his favour. Toney will be forced to dogfight the entire night and his iffy gas tank is going to be on fumes by the later half of the fight.
     
    BCS8, Jan 24, 2024
    BCS8, Jan 24, 2024
    #31
    Serge likes this.
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I've never heard anyone underrate Beterbiev so much.

    Essentially a light heavy version of Tiberi.

    You need to watch some more Beterbiev fights man.
     
    lufcrazy, Jan 24, 2024
    lufcrazy, Jan 24, 2024
    #32
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  3. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Talking about workrate
     
    BCS8, Jan 24, 2024
    BCS8, Jan 24, 2024
    #33
  4. KINGWILDER

    KINGWILDER Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I voted Toney but I’m hardly confident in that pick, Beterbiev is an ATG light heavyweight imo. Just felt the style might not be the best for him. Tbh with all these it’s hard to judge Beterbiev because his career isn’t over and the biggest test may be yet to come (Bivol).
     
    KINGWILDER, Jan 25, 2024
    KINGWILDER, Jan 25, 2024
    #34
  5. Boxing Gloves

    Boxing Gloves Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'd favour AB. Toney was an amazing talent but we can't go on "what ifs". He never delivered at light heavyweight, his discipline had started to leave him at that point in his career and his form wasn't great at that time.
     
    Boxing Gloves, Jan 25, 2024
    Boxing Gloves, Jan 25, 2024
    #35
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  6. northpaw

    northpaw Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Give me the scenario that plays out that suggests Beterbiev defeats James Toney....................
     
    northpaw, Jan 25, 2024
    northpaw, Jan 25, 2024
    #36
  7. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    I'm still trying to work out if Beterbiev is any better than Montell Griffin and Drake Thadzi. This is a tough one.
     
    BCS8, Jan 25, 2024
    BCS8, Jan 25, 2024
    #37
  8. northpaw

    northpaw Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Personally I'd question if Beterbiev could just run over Griffin. Griffin was notoriously difficult to hit clean and he was only stopped by Roy and Dariusz in his prime form. Griffin is so woefully underrated it's not funny.

    But to answer: you mean the James Toney that really beat Montell Griffin twice or do you mean the extremely out of shape Toney that hadn't even been a LHW for a year and a half and couldn't even get down to LHW...........got it.
     
    northpaw, Jan 25, 2024
    northpaw, Jan 25, 2024
    #38
  9. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    it's always the same old story

    When Roy lost it was because he was shot to smithereens at 35 despite the fact he was involved in no wars, rarely got hit, fought very few legit bangers, and because he lost 18lbs in weight over a 7 month period which supposedly turned his once iron jaw into glass :lol:

    When Toney lost three times at 175 it was because he didn't train, wasn't motivated, because of weight making issues and wasn't even trying to win

    When he got his ass paddled by Tiberi it was because he was dead at the weight and Tiberi deserves zero credit for beating him on everyone bar the corrupt judges cards. It was because of the weight despite the fact he fought twice at MW after that in that very same year

    But when Toney lost to Roy it was because Roy is amazing and had nothing to do with the weight even though Toney never fought at 168 again after that fight and looked as flat as a pancake

    But when Kostya loses to Vince Philips or other non North American fighters lose they're bums, were never that good,are widely overrated and everything they achieved is dismissed

    North American greats and North American fighters from previous generations are deemed shot in their late 20s-early 30s when they lose or struggle against certain opponents but Kostya was smack bang in the midst of his prime at the same age Roy was shot to bits despite being a much smaller fighter, getting hit way more, and his body being an injury-ravaged mess after suffering two career-threatening injuries and surgeries and being very inactive and only having fought once in 2.5 years.

    If Beterbiev loses at 39 y/o it will be evidence of him being overrated and never that good and he along with Loma and Usyk are still smack bang in the midst of their prime at 39, 36 and 38 respectively :facepalm:

    Like I said, if Beterbiev incurred just one loss to Drake Thadzi and Montell Griffin, let alone three, he would be crucified on a molten cross and everything he'd achieved would be dismissed in the blink of an eye. and not only wouldn't any of these clowns be making excuses for him they wouldn't accept a single one being made for him

    Roy and Toney also get a free pass for being jacked on PEDs and ever so coincidentally Vince Phillips also got popped for PEDs too on one of the extremely are occasions he fought outside the USA.

    The fact they were artificially enhanced and suped up on PEDs had no bearing whatsoever on them being as good as they were or helped the bridge the gap to campaign or fight at higher weights in order to become multiple weight champions. But fighters who never failed PED tests or have been involved in PED scandals are smeared as PED cheats and their legacies questioned or the legacies and accomplishments of other PED cheats who have also popped dirty are brought into question or discredited

    Apparently, Beterbiev could never achieve anything at a higher weight like Roy and James Toney did even if he had turned pro in his late teens or early 20s instead of at TWENTY EIGHT AND A HALF YEARS OLD.

    The fact that the current three belt unified HW king and former undisputed CW king Usyk is on record saying he probably gave him his toughest fights in the amateurs and that Beterbiev does hit very hard indeed and is one of the very few to actually hurt Usyk which we have evidence of on tape despite the fact Beterbiev weighed well under the HW limit at just 83kgs and Usyk has fought more legit bangers and murderous punching KO artists than any current champ in the sport, a whole bunch of whom SHW giants is dismissed too.

    No way Beterbiev could bulk up and become a multiple weight champ like Roy and Toney did and many of these same clowns were so sure Usyk wouldn't be able to do when I and others were telling them for so long he could :facepalm:

    And we just ignore the fact that Toney was a way bigger when he was taking the punches of CWs and HWs than he was when he was at LHW but a CW or HW Beterbiev wouldn't be more durable if he weighed a lot more after bulking up to fight at higher weights :facepalm:

    There's a reason why fighters generally bulk up or get bigger when they move up in weight. Toney weighed 233lbs when he fought Samuel Peter not 170-190lbs. He was dropped heavily and badly hurt by Reggie Johnson who I think I'm correct in assuming did not hit harder than Peter or Holyfield nor even close to :facepalm:

    Like I said, it's the same old story all the time. It's not just bias I think many are just brainwashed :lol:

    Beterbiev beats the soul out of Toney's body
     
    Serge, Jan 25, 2024
    Serge, Jan 25, 2024
    #39
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  10. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Tell me YDKSAB without telling me YDKSAB.
     
    BCS8, Jan 25, 2024
    BCS8, Jan 25, 2024
    #40
  11. northpaw

    northpaw Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Who stopped "prime" Griffin? Those two men are well beyond Beterbiev IMO, h2h and actual careers........Montell's struggles throughout his entire career (other than Roy's blowout in the rematch), were all against a specific type of body (over 6 ft, long arms outboxers). Not against come forward guys he can counter, that's what Montell liked to do.

    I don't know **** about boxing but I consistently on nearly every post I make give concise arguments behind my reasoning...................so ok
     
    northpaw, Jan 25, 2024
    northpaw, Jan 25, 2024
    #41
  12. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Other than Dariusz, Jones and Johnson?
    LMFAO. I suppose Eric Harding is also "well beyond" Beterbiev?
    Beterbiev's struggles were against ... oh, wait, nobody. I guess stopping every single guy he ever faced in pro boxing means he's going to be 'well behind' Montell "Leadfoot" Griffin :D
     
    BCS8, Jan 25, 2024
    BCS8, Jan 25, 2024
    #42
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  13. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    My thoughts from a DM:


    re: could Beterbiev knock Toney out:
    re: Toney's campaign at LHW not going very well:

     
    IntentionalButt, Jan 25, 2024
    IntentionalButt, Jan 25, 2024
    #43
    northpaw likes this.
  14. UniversalPart

    UniversalPart Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Preach! Say it like it is!
     
    UniversalPart, Jan 25, 2024
    UniversalPart, Jan 25, 2024
    #44
    Serge and BCS8 like this.
  15. northpaw

    northpaw Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Prime............prime...........prime. Griffin's prime ended around the time he fought Tarver. He fought Roy and Toney in what 95-96? Give 6 to 7 years of prime in someone's career, that would've ended around Tarver. Rico Hoye (which Montell was unlucky to have lost to), Gonzalez, Glen those weren't prime Montell. And even though they weren't two of them have the same body types I just said were his career struggles

    Eric Harding was an extremely difficult fighter to look good against. No one except Chad Dawson really looked good against him, not even Roy. He was a spoiler type. And Beterbiev never had adversity in any of his fights? Now you're just being silly. Credit to him, he's won everything and deserves the utmost credit for that but to say he had no struggles is just goofy.

    And calling Montell lead foot Griffin makes no sense, he's a catch and counter/make you lead and counter fighter, his style isn't to move, it's to make the opponent over commit................and if you don't think Montell (win or lose) could land in abundance against Beterbiev (when he was landing on Roy and Toney) I really don't know what else to say.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2024
    northpaw, Jan 25, 2024
    northpaw, Jan 25, 2024
    #45
    The Real Lance likes this.
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