James Toney vs Gennady Golovkin : at 160

Fair enough. Who would you say can test Genady at 160? I am just curious because I hear a lot about this "untested GGG" and he has the best resume of all 160 lb fighters at the moment.

He is about to unify with a monstrous puncher. Is that going to be a test?

He is signed to fight Canelo-Cotto winner after (most likely Canelo). Will that count as a test?

 

I have access to HGH and I could take it if I wanted to., but not making a career out of combat martial arts makes it pointless for me. I went to academia but for a long time trained with guys who are now joining ufc ranks, a few amateur boxers, met a few pros during the trips, etc. Hgh is a hushed whisper, but its understood that most people are using it.

You're saying it is all speculations but he failed a PED test twice. How many times does he need to be caught for you to see things my way? Do you think that he suddenly started taking it in the end of his career, when there was so little on the line and so much to lose? Ask yourself that, why would a fighter that is going against below mediocre opposition, resort to PEDs, at the zenith of his career, if he wasn't a habitual user? I am going by more than speculation, I am going by common sense.

Let me give you a TLDR: Toney was caught cheating twice. Both times in fights that many would consider less important than the big career defining ones he had at middleweight. If he was willing to cheat now, wouldn't it make sense that he would cheat then as well, given that the stakes were that much higher, and the chances of being caught were close to zero?

 

I like Lemiuex but not sold on his boxing who knows he may test him but honestly the thought of him fighting guys like Froch or Ward would have answered a ton of questions. As far as Canelo I think GGG would beat him, im not overly imprssed with his boxing. But to answer your question in order for him to truly be tested he would have to move up imo

 

Roy is a whole different can of worms, we can discuss him later.


You're asking how likely a guy who is too lazy to train, and too irresponsible to maintain his diet, a guy with a lack of discipline, but who is accustomed to winning (44-0 was remarkable), is to take PEDs?

Let that sink in for a second. You realize that the answer, from any sane person familiar with behavioral psychology, is a resounding "VERY", right?. Hell, I'd practically bet money on it.

Imagine yourself in JT's shoes. He hears what HGH does (it helps tremendously in burning calories as it boosts your metabolism, boosts testosterone production, improves endurance, improves strength, decreases recovery time among other things and at the time was impossible to detect).

JT: "So you're telling me I can eat all the cake I want and still be strong and at the weight the day of the fight? Mo****a gimme all them hgh's and peds!"

 

So you want a 33 year old that easily makes 160 (he is 159 at the weigh in) to move up 9 pounds to fight guys that have a hard time making 168, to prove his worth? I think that is a very high standard you're judging GGG by, remarkably high. Maybe he is a great fighter after all?

PS: He tried to get Chavez and Froch, both of whom decided GGG was not someone they'd want to be in the ring with. Both fights would be at 168, with both of them being bigger and stronger.

 

I will give you the latter, JT was a *****y fighter and didn't avoid anyone until his HW run and the Klitschko duck. (Which I can't blame him for, he is 5'10 FFS).

 

I don't think he could ever make 147. 154 was doable though, and he should have started there, I agree.

 

You do realize that you got no facts to back your PED claims up in Toney's early career. :think. It is a nice story from you, but at the end of the day, you just have an opinion.

Am opinion that is not only irrelevant but also unlikely. Because it is fact that nodbody agrees with you- :deal

Contary to your belief, Toney was a hard worker in his earlier career. I do not know if the Detroit Kronk Gym was exactly known for drug cheaters. :-( Toney had exceptional skills and was not relying on his physique.

The fact that Toney ballooned in weight between is no way an indication of PEDs but rather of indiscipline. Remember Duran, it was the same story.

 

Mayweather has moved up 5 times, Manny 7. I don't know why GGG fans think somebody is holding something against their man asking him to move up ONE weight class. Especially after what his manager said about him beating anyone from 154-168, running Kovalev out of the ring, dropping heavyweights in sparring, etc. Especially because he has already made plans for two fights at 168 with two other fighters. I just don't see the issue.

 

Toney would take this guy to school.

 

Toney's too tough and to skilled for GGG

 

No one would have believed that Lance Armstrong was a steroid user and his sport is tested more stringently than boxing.

You're right, it is just my opinion, but my opinion is no less valid than yours or anyone else's. I have a fact working in my favour: he got caught cheating twice. What do you have, other than a romantic notion of a hard working man that was known throughout his career to be exceptionally lazy?

 

This is very simple. Mayweather joined pro ranks at a much younger age. These weight tricks are only possible when you're very young, at 33 you didn't see May jump 5 divisions, did you?

130 at 19, 135 at 24, 140 at 27, 147 at 29, 154 once then back to 147. This is a natural progression of a male as he matures. Notice how Mayweather settled into his natural weight class at the age of 29. Now Genady is 33 at his natural weight, and you want him to move up NOW. Hardly the same thing, is it?

 

Toney beat the dog out of a prime Jirov 30 pounds past his best weight and about 8 years past his peak. GGG isnt a better fighter than Jirov and theyre styles are similar. Only differnce was Jirov was a southpaw and punched much harder than GGG. Toney handles him quite easily. Knocks him out

 

All thanks to the help of his magical PED's :deal

This hypothetical matchup is set in the middle weight class, a 160 pound Toney vs a 160 pound Golovkin. A 160 pound GGG may very well have knocked out a 160 pound Toney, but we do not know if a 160 pound Golovkin would have knocked out a cruiserweight version of Toney. Jirov is NOT better than Golovkin....

Toney was a cruiserweight when he defeated Jirov, he was not a middleweight. A middleweight version of Toney fighting a cruiserweight version of Jirov may very well end up in Jirov knocking out Toney, due to the size differential. But that matchup should NOT be brought here, as we are talking about a hypothetical 160 pound encounter between Triple G and Toney.

Would Golovkin be allowed to take PED's in order to level out the playing field? :bbb