James Toney vs Sugar Ray Leonard

I could see this.

 

Yeah. Ray was still a very smart, slippery fighter with great hand speed at MW. Probably better hand speed than Toney even. And that was just the kind of opponent Toney didn't like. Ray could well take this.

 

Toney is nowwhere as fast as Leonard.

 

Toney could be out pointed by Ray ,if he's got his lazy head on .But a focused ,fully fit Toney ?...I believe he could break through Sugar and hurt him badly. But Leonard would survive to see the last bell ,but in doing so loses a wide decision.

 

Leonard would turn him all night. And he'd never fall for the Toney trick of having the opponent throw a ton of right hand leads and counter. He'd be circling away from James all night and Toney is a full step out of range. Dull fight.

The bout would not be like the Nunn bout. It'd be like the Tiberi bout with shoeshining flurries and playing to the crowd which wins the rounds on the judges cards.

 

Toney at MW and SMW had very fast hands. Look at his combos in the Barkley fight, for example.

And Leonard didn't have quite the same hand speed at MW that he had at WW. With that said, I'd agree that SRL had the faster hands at MW, but I don't think there's that much in it.

 

It's not just hand speed to consider, it's foot speed and mobility from the waist down. James does not let his hands go until his opponent is in his range. Ray Leonard would not be there in that circumference.

 

Yeah, Ray has Toney well, well beaten on mobility. Which is way I lean towards Leonard in this match-up.

 

Likewise.

Good question though. Toney was my initial thought.

 

It was the same thing with the Jones matchup for Toney. Roy was not going to stand in the pocket with him. And he didn't. How much do you think Jones studied that Tiberi fight? He'd turn him and use left hand leads and Toney was stuck in mud.

 

Haven't watched the Tiberi fight in a long time, just remember that he put a lot of pressure on Toney.

 

Leonard's chances are much better with a pre McCallum version of Toney. After those fights Toney was much better because he learned the value of mental energy.

Toney moved just fine and he would've been able to cut the ring on Leonard. After Tiberi the book on Toney was to stay on top of him and throw punches; Leonard wouldn't fight him that way. He would have to be mobile and try to steal exchanges.

It cracks me up when people say Toney had slow feet. From Tiberi on, every guy he fought- even taller guys with longer arms- came straight to him throwing a lot of punches. Now, if your strength is making guys miss and countering, that is exactly what you want to have happen. Why would you move and make them chase you.

Incidentally, even into the Charles Williams fight Toney was considered to be a guy that liked room, used movement to create it, and had terrific handspeed.

 

The Leonard that beat Hagler would beat the Toney of the Jones fight in a close 12 rounder.

A hypothetical prime middleweight Leonard with, say, the same speed as his welter self and with extra power and chin would lose to the Toney of the Nunn fight in a late round knockout. Leonard would win his rounds more clearly than Nunn but when Toney catches up to him it will be difficult to watch.

 

Haven't put much thought into this, but my instinct is to pick Leonard.

 

Are you serious? A lot of fighters would beat the Toney of the Jones fight.Toney was weight drained for that fight