Janitors ten most historicaly important British fighters and a bit about each of them

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Nov 29, 2008.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Nice work, Janitor.
     
  2. SgrRyLeonard

    SgrRyLeonard Active Member Full Member

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    Great work, Janitor. Very interesting reading.
     
  3. Big N Bad

    Big N Bad Well-Known Member Full Member

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    what type of fighter was tom sayers?
    "a technicaly astute offensive boxer”.

    he's an aggressive fighter..but was he slick.
    was he like a langford slickster or a aggressive technical fighter with text book technique (de la hoya)

    how was his punching power?
    how would he have done against the likes of johnson, dempsey langford or louis?
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  5. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He did a punches landed system, but more importantly he promote the new Queensberry Rules


    Yes but Mace was ultimately a lot more appreciated than Langham.



    The punch maybe, but Mace was the first to use it properly in a modern day sense, in fact he had everything other than a hook, which of course would be a suicidal punch for a bare knuckled fighter.



    Mace was the first global superstar, but with death of bare knuckle fighting happening first in Britain, Mace become a much bigger star in first American and then in due course Australia where he trained and then helped out the brilliant Larry Foley with his star studded turn of the century crop of Aussie fighters.

    We (The Brits) let Mace rot away in poverty, but our American and Australian cousins were a lot more respectful of the old man.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Of course Langham did not have Maces natural talent with which to employ his new tactics. Mace had tremendous power for his weight and reflexes like a rattlesnake.

    If you put Mace in with sombody like Joe Choynski or Bob Fitzsimmons in a gloved contest the only thiong they would have over him is the left hook.
     
  7. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCZZAheNSU
     
  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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  9. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Let's not forget that when Driscoll died it was declared a national day of mourning in Wales and his funeral procession in Cardiff gathered 100,000 people, which is one of the country's biggest events.

    Beyond that, I'd have Driscoll in there before Joe because he went over to the States and thoroughly dominated a prime Abe Atell, shutting him out on some accounts.

    Calzaghe went over and barely escaped an old ass Hopkins and put on a rather vapid display against a shot Roy Jones.

    You might say this is something that goes towards measuring greatness, but to me, it can just as easily account for historically significance. Driscoll went to America and became known as peerless, Joe went over and did nothing of the sort.

    As for Joe being the first to unify 168, I guess that's historically significant, assuming of course, that you accept that the division is historically important. Can't say the division has much of a history really, but so be it.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  12. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Most training routines are hype and BS, I believe them when I see them. Its like someone claiming he can bench 500lbs, and then making them bench and finding out they struggle to hit 180

    Fitzsimmons is visably not that well conditioned and doesn't have explosive muscle and yes you can tell certain physical traits from a picture. Benn especially would run Fitzsimmons into the ground in training, he was a maniac
     
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The training regimes of early fighters are verry well documented. They had newspapermen in their training camp in the run up to major fights to document them. It seems to be you basing your asertion that Nigel Benn trained harder than Fitzsimmons on inuendo while I am using documented sources.

    It should not come as any surprise that these fighters trained harder than their modern conterparts when you consider that they were training for much longer fights.

    No, you can't tell whether a fighter has explosive muscle from photographs. You can infer that Fitzsimmons did from the fact that he knocked out men well over 200 lbs while weighing under 160 himself.
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The matter is given much more thorough treatment in Adam Pollacks biography but here is an acount taken from the Mirror of Life, 1897)

    Bob Fitzsimmons Training
    Fitzsimmons is a marvel in point of endurance. He is accustomed to take a certain amount of exercise whether he is matched to fight or not.

    Fitz is a great walker. Twenty miles for an appetizer is a daily event with him. This is at a gait which verges upon a run. It was this sort of training which used to surprise the early morning visitors to Central Park in New York just prior to his departure to Carson City.

    In company with Yaroum, his big canine pet, he would start from the Bartholdi Hotel at Twenty-third Street and Broadway, dash up Fifth Avenue, the most fashionable thoroughfare of the metropolis with the Great Dane prancing ahead him. Around Central Park he would go and then back to the hotel for a rubdown and an hour with the punching bag.

    The training which Fitz believes in differs from training the training of the average fighter. First of all he trains himself. He takes his own advice and regulates his own work and diet.

    "I'll do no more 18 or 20 mile runs" he said in his initial week's work. "I'll start off and run six or eight miles and then I'll walk back at a good nice gait. Next day I'll walk out my distance and run back. Another day I'll run a mile and walk a mile, alternating for 10 or 15 miles. Another day I'll follow the telegraph poles. I'll run at a top speed between two poles, then walk between the next two".

    According to his friends, Fitzsimmons is the possessor of no bad habits. Fitzsimmons has wisely remarked that if he couldn't keep himself straight with the prospect of a fortune before him no trainer could. Fitz had a visitor one time who wanted to know all about his mode of training. All Fitzsimmons did was to hand him the following schedule:

    6.30am - Rises, bathes, dresses.
    7.00 - Sherry and egg
    7.05 to 8.15 - Rides on bicycle (15 Miles)
    8.15 - Breakfast
    9.30 - Goes 15 miles afoot
    11.30 - Has rubdown and rests
    1.00pm - Dinner
    3.00 - Works in gymnasium
    5.00 - Showerbath and rubdown
    6.00 - Supper
    8.00,9.00,10.00,11.00 - Bed


    In the October 12 edition of the Dallas Morning News, it was reported that Fitz, after an ocean swim, a walk, a romp with Pat - his two hundred pound St Bernard, and some wood splitting, settled down to a breakfast table usually stocked with "oatmeal, muffins, steak, chops or chicken. He does not believe in diet or special foods." After exercising and a cold sponge bath there was a hearty dinner of "every vegetable the markets far and near can produce. These are flanked by generouis roasts of beef, mutton and pork."​
     
  15. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    The outlined part shows your complete ignorance of sports training. Because your training for a longer duration does not mean you train harder.

    The optimal VO2 Maximisation is around a max speed 3mile run, anything longer doesn't build the same level of cardivascular peaking. I'll tell you 3mile work run at pace is harder and more painful than marathon running in my experience.

    The routine of Fitzsimmons in terms of roadwork is nothing that nearly every boxer does today unless they are 1 of todays lazy HWs. Furthermore many modern boxers (none elites) do marathons in training, they would be better served doing 1-3-5mile speed work

    His pseudo-interval work does impress me though, as most of this time didnt use it.

    It can be gauged from photograph's that Fitzsimmons didn't have full muscle bellies that would optimize explosivity. It can also be gauged his bodyfat wasnt particularly low

    Do you have 'alleged' mile times for him?