JCC would make today's 135 look mediocre?

Yes, I think JCC is an elite ATG, along with most other people. Top 5? hmmm... SRR, Ali, SRL, Armstrong would be my top 4 and then you can put JCC, Duran and Whitaker in no particular order next, so yeah maybe.

Re Em, MAB and JMM - this is what you quoted and responded to: "Rosario would be a good competitive matchup with JMM, but I would take JMM over either one. I do put JMM, MAB and EM in the ATG class in their respective weight classes, I just think JCC is a super-elite ATG, like an SRR, Ali or SRL." and that post was to establish that I give EM, MAB and JMM credit as ATG fighters, which is what we were talking about. If you don't want to be misunderstood, speak more clearly.

Look: You might or might not be stupid, but you ARE 16. Don't try to make fake arguments where there are none. Your big important point that you think really puts me in my place is apparently that Camacho gets less of a horrible beating pre-Rosario. Ok, I'll give it to you if that's what will make you happy. He still gets a horrible beating though lol...

 

:rofl Sure you cant.

That was Floyd at 154. Floyd at 135-140 is all over the ring.

 

Do you want me to show you a gif when Floyd was on the ropes making DLH do the chicken? Floyd won that fight clearly, Hoya was definitely the agressor early but Floyd had the cleaner shots. After things settled down, Floyd took over that fight. It was a clear win for Floyd.

Again Taylor stood toe toe with Chavez and was beating him clearly until Chavez body shots took effect late, which in turn is the cue for Taylor to just play safe. Yet Duva sent him out there in the 12th with a do or die mission. He was winning that fight clearly before the 12.

Taylors downfall was that he was a Philly fighter and didnt think in there

 

personally I feel that the man who won the fight should get the decision, and JCC won the FIGHT while Taylor was trying to win the boxing match. Taylor racked up points and stayed cute all the way thru, but it was JCC who did the real damage and it was Taylor who was physically wrecked. I feel kind of bad for Taylor, especially considering how he turned out afterward but imho the right man got his arm raised.

 

What has me being 16 got to do with it?

So your telling me your top 7 P4P would be:

1-4: Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard, Muhammad Ali & Henry Armstrong.

And then 5-7: Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker & Roberto Duran.

Are you kidding me? What has SRL done to get in the top 4? Guys like Sam Langford & Harry Greb have far deepers resumes and have achieved across a number of weight classes aswell against great fighters, with incredibly longetivity.

Leonard should be no higher than #12, Ali I can understand because a lot of people rank him higher, he's an enigma, but in reality he shouldn't be any higher than about #8.

I'm a big Whitaker fan but he shouldn't be in the top 10, definately not at numbers 5, 6 or 7. I have him around #18, top 15 is probably a step too far even. Duran I'll give you that he's where he should be. But Chavez? The guy shouldn't be top 10, shouldn't be top 15, hell he shouldnt' even be top 20 or top 25.

Ezzard Charles, Willie Pep, Benny Leonard, Charley Burley, Bob Fitzsimmons, Mickey Walker, Archie Moore, where are these guys on your list? All are way above Chavez.

And me biggest point isn't that Camacho gets less of a beating pre-Rosario. He doesn't, but that's not my big point.

The big point is that you rate Chavez as a top 5 P4P fighter, which is completely illogical.

 

Langford and Greb.. in fact most pre WWII fighters are overrated imho. That's a discussion for another day, but if you watch the clips we have on them many of them are just crude windmillers, most of them have very little technique at all. I don't romanticize the golden olden days, 90% of those guys couldn't even compete from the 60's era on up. There are exceptions to the rule though.

I would have Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles and those type of more modern guys very high, just not in my top 5.

 

If your one of those guy's who's going to yap on about modern training methods and dieting I'm not even going to bother discussing with you any longer, because if I did I could easily keep this going for another 20 pages on that subject.

 

well then you might as well not bother discussing it anymore, because the training methods, diet and technique have evolved greatly since the 20's, and the modern era didn't begin until about the 60's, with certain fighters like SRR being ahead of their time. Boxing is a martial art, and like every other art and science it evolves and improves thru experience and practice. You can make the argument that if Stanley Ketchel would have had access to everything modern fighters have access to, as well as the experience of all the fighters between then and now to learn from and build upon he could have competed today and been successful, but he didn't. If you dropped Ketchel or Greb into the mix today and they fought now as they fought then, with the same technique, you would never hear their name mentioned. They would be little more than tough club fighters.

That's just imho though, other opinions may vary.

Either way though, you have a very good grasp of the sport for your age. A little Max Kellerman