Jean Claude Bouttier - how good was he?

Gotta admit, although read about him for years, I actually never saw him fight. On French soil he had some good wins over Juarez DeLima, Kitten Hayward, Bunny Sterling and some long-in-the-tooth vets like Manny Gonzalez and Raul Soriano. But I do remember the magazines at the time making a fuss about his 'win' over Emile Griffith. And by that I mean the mags were none too pleased with the sham Bouttier put on. But the one thing that always stands out when talking about Bouttier was when I was all over the Boxing from the Forum and Boxing from the Olympic telecasts as a kid that I would watch weekly. And remember well ring commentator for the Olympic Jim Healy talking about European fighters and making note about Bouttier coming over to the US with rave credentials, but all he saw was an average middleweight. Sure enough, a brief check of Bouttier's record shows he fought back-to-back fights at the Olympic Auditorium where Healy obviously watched him in depth. Bouttier won and lost in 10 rounders against local talent. Maybe he just didn't travel well.

 

Fantastic Post, Great Job.

 

He was a Euro level clubfighter. Nothing more. His victories over Hayward and Griffith were absolute dog**** to the point that Hayward dropped him with a perfectly timed clean punch and the ref didnt even count it. Griffith was starting to grind him down and brought up an uppercut to the bread basket. The punch MIGHT have whisked gently across his trunks on the way up, so slightly they didnt even move and certainly made no contact with the cup and yet Bouttier put on a gutless display as if hed been hit in the nuts with a cannon ball. The television program replayed it over in slow motion and you cant see anything worth a DQ. It took the guy 3 tries to get a victory over DeLima, it took him two tries to beat a clubfighter like Lonnie Harris and never proved he was even the best middleweight in France much less Europe. Monzon fans will wax poetic about him because it makes Monzon's reign look better if Bouttier was actually good and deserving, same reason they wax poetic about other clubfighter level guys Monzon defended against such as Tonna and Bogs but ask them how many of their actual fights theyve seen and suddenly those guys dry up and blow away never to return. They can look at Boxrec and tell you he beat Tom Bethea but they cant tell you that Bethea practically sent Bouttier an invitation to land a right hand and then put up a weak job of selling the KO. Theyll talk about his victory over DeLima but wont be able to tell you he ran and held for most of the fight before trying to steal it in the late rounds during which he threw a ton of punches but missed most of them while DeLima countered accurately with bodyshots that apparently werent scored in France. They wont be able to explain to you why fighters had the unique ability to suddenly forget the most basic tenets of defense when fighting Bouttier by walking around with their hands down waiting to get hit or why for some reason knocking a French fighter down in France didnt count.

 

He went 12 then 15 with Monzon and put up a spirited effort on both occasions, on the floor once in the 1st fight and 3 times in the second, prompting the reporter to ask Monzon " if your hand was ok, do you think you would have put him down more times " came the reply from Carlos " if my hand was better, I would have only needed to put him down once " good reply.
Well remember going to the Hackney road cinema in the early hours in 74 ( i think ) to see a double header for the Euro titles at MW and WW the challengers from UK John Stracey and Kevin Finnegan, both huge underdogs to Boutier and the immensely strong and durable Roger Menetrey , as you know both our lads won, Kevin put in a masterclass to outpoint Boutier, if he had a punch to match his skills and courage, he would have been world champion, then Stracey fighting on the front foot ( as all the Lawless stable did ) ground down Menetrey for a 7th round stoppage, I got to tell you that was a great display from our boys fighting in France, in particular Stracey, as Roger had won the title from Ralph Charles, a tough and dour british champ, the sentiment said John would fight well but eventually get stopped, not so, he backed up and outpunched the frenchman non stop, I rolled home at burglar's hours , with more than a few pints down my neck, but over the moon.
stay safe guys.

 

What a fantastic experience you had. Very cool.

 

I saw the first Carlos Monzon vs Jean Claude Bouttier title bout from Paris, France live on ABC's Wide World Of Sports on June 17 1972. Bouttier did put up a very good effort in that fight. Ralph Charles and Roger Menetrey both lost in title bouts to Welterweight Champion Jose Mantequilla Napoles, but John H. Stracey went home with the title on Dec 6 1975 despite getting decked by Napoles in round 1, suffering a broken nose. Stracey won the title with a very gallant effort.

 

Thanks matey, back in the early 70s it was common to go to the pictures in the early hours to see a world title fight from America, occasionally as Richard as stated you might get to see a title fight on WOS or Grandstand usually on a Saturday afternoon, I myself saw Napoles first fight with Lewis on such a show, posters like Richard/Noel87/Liston73 will know of what I speak, judging by their recollections of yesteryear.
stay safe buddy.

 

Napoles vs Lewis 1 st fight on NBC's Boxing From The Forum, saw it at night.

 

He was no Jean-Claude Van Damme

 

I watched Napoles training for Ralph Charles his accuracy and timing was superb.

 

Don't doubt it for a second, of all the great fighters of the 70s , Duran, Olivares, Foster, Monzon, yes even Ali , Napoles was for me the the most appealing, the mexican moustache, the bronzed colouring , the sloping shoulders of a natural puncher, the laconic approach to every fight, the way he slowly built up mommentom to his job in hand, unhurried, safe in the knowledge that he will prevail, sooner or later, a study in grace and movement, slowly cutting off the ring, patiently moving through the gears, all executed with Van Gogh's brush , the most relaxed of champs, forever a champ, give grace to my mum and dad for the timing of my birth, so as to witness Napoles in his pomp.
stay safe guys.

 

I can't see anything wrong with Monzon defending his title against no4 ranked Bouttier in71 especially since he had already defeated the number 2 Griffith and the number 3 Moyer.
Again in72 ,when Monzon fought him for the 2nd time he had already defended against now no 1 Griffith,no2 Mundine,and no7Briscoe before giving no4 ranked Bouttier a 2nd chance.The Frenchman wasn't a great fighter, just a decent Euro level one but he was ranked in the top 4 both times ,so whats the big deal?

 

"I cant see anything wrong with"

"Looks pretty decent"

I would ask again: What fights have you two seen of his?

Ive seen his fights with:

Adkins, Aguilar, Aroch, Bethea, Blinker, Broughton, Cailleau, Calcabrini, Cohen 1 and 2, Delima 1, 2, and 3, DiBenedetto, Duran, Finnegan, Gabanetti, Griffith, Harris 2, Hayward, Hernandez, Johnson, Klein, Gonzalez, Millien, Miranda, Monzon 1 and 2, Muzio, Oggiani, Phillips, Ridouald, Romano, Soriano, Sterling, and Van Laer as well as several hours of training footage and a couple of exhibitions.

Maybe we can compare notes. Itd be fun to swap opinions with an informed individual.