Jeff or Johnson-best comp as champ?

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I guess we can excuse Johnson for not fighting Langford now, he offered to fight him in a cellar.

 

offering someone to fight in the cellar is not the same as offering them a shot in the ring

 

Sure, but the difference is the money offer had been made for a Johnson vs Langford fight. There were similar offers for Johnson to fight MCvey ( which you doubted ) and Jeanette.

When the big money was finally up, Jeffries did take the fight. When the money was up for Johnson in many fights, he balked!!!!

I see a huge diffrence here.

 

Maybe so. Ksmith must be on cloud 9 right now since I’ve never seen him refer to or produce these types of reports. I'll take your word. Good find.

[FONT=&quot]However let's note that Jeffries last fight vs Munroe in 1904, and then he retired. If the offer came in late 1903, we are talking about a 1 year window here at the very most. What needs to be re-searched form here is how much Jeffries made vs Munroe. If it was over 15-20K, then Jeffries took the money. If it was under 15-20K, to fight Munroe, then you can signal a duck even though Munroe was personal as much as business.. Furthermore the teenaged McVey was on a losing streak at the end of 1903, and took a year off from boxign after that. Johnson was elimiated form the #1 contender when he lost to Hart in 1905. Neither man had much of a true claim to the #1 spot for long.

Back to my point. Johnson was offered far more money to fight McVey, Langford, and Jeanette as champion, and refused multiple times over a window far longer than a year.

It is clear that Johnson was the bigger ducker by a country mile. Even Ksmtih would be inclined to agree. The title of this thread is, who beat better competion as champion. I think you, me, Ksmith, and most of the board would say Jeffries.


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i'VE ALLREADY PLUMPED FOR jEFF.

 

My original post contained a quote from Gunboat Smith ,that the Jeffries Johnson fight was originally going to be a tank job by Johnson,when the fight was scheduled for San Francisco,when the fight was switched toReno allbets were off and the fight was on the level,thats Smiths story as a former Johnson sparring partner ,he said he was told this by by Bob Armstrong ,one of Johnsons seconds for the fight,wether you beleive it is up to you,I just offered it as an interesting tit bit.Its in Peter Hellers book "In This Corner",a very good read imo.

 

Yes by all means give the source ,Im not suggesting it was kosher,just interesting,Jeffries was under a huge amount of pressure,so much that its difficult to comprehend it today,what with Sullivan and Corbett on his back,plus all the press,its known that he didnt sleep the night before the fight ,and that he complained that his arms and legs,"felt ***** " during the fight ,plus his judgement of distance was "off" these could all be symptoms of tension.The man must have been in a mental turmoil when he found he could do nothing with a Champion at the peak of his powers,which Jeffries decidedly was not,whatever Jeffries faults he took a beating and never quit,you have to respect his courage.

 

agreed. I was poking fun at Dr. Z

 

Who wouldn't be dreading potentially take 20 rounds of punishement before getting through? His style must have taken its toll mentally.

 

I think the poster you are referring to would find a way to make things reflect badly on Johnson,even if he kod Ali,Louis ,and Dempsey on the same night!

 

Johnson had a chance to fight the best in his era as champ but didn't. In fact sometimes Johnson was embarrassed vs lesser fighters as champ. Getting out boxed by a much smaller man, getting floored vs a much smaller man, and getting his rear handed to him by a journeyman! That’s all time stuff right there. Yet some posters here continue to ignore the obvious.

If Johnson had beaten McVey, Langford, and Jeanette as champion, then he pretty much cleans out his era as champion like Ali and Louis did and would deserve high acclaim. In fact most of Ali's, Louis’, and Dempsey's title fight opponents crush the same guys Johnson gave title shots to. You know it, and so do I. And the beat goes on……

 

I think Johnson's racial symbolism and social importance far eclipses his abilities as a fighter. He has to be one of the most boring fighters I've ever watched. Not saying he wasn't a good fighter, but I have some question marks about him. Maybe I just don't like his style. Effective, but really boring. What a lot of folks fail to realize is that Johnson was held back not only because of his race, but also because he was considered less than entertaining. A lot of folks were a lot more pro-Peter Jackson in his title quest than Johnson, because Jackson came to fight a lot more than Johnson did. When Jackson came to America, his abilities were instantly appreciated and lauded. It took years for folks to truly appreciate Johnson's abilities, and even then there were mixed reviews. Johnson had to fight as much as he did to hone his style, and to finally get through to folks that he really was that good. But his style was such that a lot of people had to be convinced. Fighters like Joe Louis - when you saw him, you almost instantly knew the guy was special. Johnson, you weren't sure until he beat a bunch of guys, and then you begrudgingly had to give it up to him.