Jeffries discusses possible opponents after the Munro bout.

Or Johnson is not as big a deal as some claim.

 

OK, the Ralph Rose thing was news to me and in doing a bit of research found this gem...

"Battling Nelson is going on record now as saying that Ralph Rose, the giant shot-putter, will be heard from soon in the squared circle. Rose, as was mentioned Saturday is training to enter the ring and fight Jack Johnson.

'He put on the gloves with me one afternoon. I can usually get into any of them in the mix, but I might just as well have tried to hit the statue of liberty. Rose just loves to box. He told me that he was boxing all the time in college... He can bump you like a cannonball with a jab...

Say, if you think he can't hit, I'll tell you what I saw him do. One of the sports out there bet $50 one afternoon that he couldn't drop a cow with a punch, and Rose took him up. He bound his right hand an inch thick with tape and then put a punching bag glove on it. We had to tear the to get it on and then went over to the pasture near Millet's and picked out a big, burly cow.

Rose took his hat off and walked up to the cow and belted it right between the eyes with his right. The cow folded up a little like an accordion, shook for a fraction of a second and tumbled down.

We thought it was dead, but in about five minutes it got up again. They tell me that Jeff killed a bear with a punch. I'll bet money that Rose can hit harder than Jeff and Johnson combined.'"

Fact.

 

Jeffries did what was expected of all hwt champions ....keep the tradition of not allowing a blac k man the chance of winning a title that if they were successful would inplicate that they were the superior of all men. This was not a concept Jeffries dreamt up....it was part of the American culture. Jeffries in actuality fought more black men than any other white champion up until Marciano.

 

Both opinions are possible, and can only be arrived at by each individual.

Its possible Hart had a Buster Douglas night ,and Johnson was complacent and lazy,which would certainly not be a unique case.The idea that the decision was a just one does not wash with me because George Siler the referee was ringside and he was certainly a more respected and experienced ref than Creggains who only got the job because he was the promoter, he stated in print ,"it was a very strange decision",WW Naughton editor of The Police Gazette thought Johnson was robbed. Creggains would probably have given Randy Cobb the decision over Holmes.

 

Jeffries fought the second tier blacks, in Jackson's case a walking corpse.
The point is he was not prepared to defend his title against them, particularly the best ones .

 

At the time, Jackson had not lost a fight in 14 years, and according to the press was in shape and regained his form. Jeffries didn't even have 10 fights under his belt when he meet Jasckon. The fight was essentialy over in round two, long before Jackson's stamina or lack there of could come into play. Jeffries power ended it early.

Who says Griffin was 2nd tier? Not in the first fight for sure. In the second fight, Griffin didn't stand a chance, yet he beat Jack Johnson and drew with him in the same year!

Armstrong was a solid fighter. Not great but capable.

If Johnson beat Hart, and enough money was up, who knows. What fighters say and do when the money is guranteed can contradict what they say. On quote, Jeffries mentioned Johnson as a possibility in 1904.

There are also reports of Jeffires KO'ing Martin and Chlids in the press.

 

Jeffries was boxing bouts in his AC when he was 17 years old ,there are several fights that are unrecorded as I posted earlier in the year.

Jackson had not lost a fight in 14 years? He hadn't fought for 3 years! and that against a nobody whose record was2-3-1 it was a nd 6rounder, prior to that he hadn't fought for a further 3 years again against a no hoper a 3 rounder against a guy whose record was 11-15-12.Thats 9 rds in that time.Jackson was 37 years old an alcoholic, and terminally ill with consumption. Way back when he was in the Uk there were articles in the daily papers entitled ,"The Sad Mess That Is Peter Jackson," His sparring partner went into print to say his condition was "tragic".

Jeffries was guaranteed $20,000 to face Sam McVey and $30,000 to face the winner of the Johnson /Martin fight he turned both down.
Jeffries position about facing black challengers is emphatically illustrated in many news articles.And, absolutely confirmed by Adam's research for his Jeffries book.
Jeffries several times refused to fight Martin ,and as with Childs ,Jeffries never fought him.
Do you ever visit the real universe ? Or do you just inhabit Mendoza World?atschatschatsch

 

Thank you, janitor.

I am suprised to see Jeffries site Johnson as a potential challenger, though he doesn't give Johnson the sort of brief analysis he gives the other fighters.
I'm not too suprised Jeffries speaks highly (if not graciously) of Johnson.

 

That's what he said ,and he many times stated it.

 

We shall start off agreeing. As I mentioned before, Jeffries had reported Ko'd over Martin and Childs.

.


Sam Mcvey wasn't a star then. I told you he lost to Martin, and QUIT boxing while Jeffries was champion. Facts.

Did you buy Adam's book? You never said if you did or did not. In truth Jeffries was the first heavyweight champion to fight a black man in the ring. He fought Hank Griffin, and had Griffin won, he's the next lineal champion. That is how it works. How good was Griffin? He beat Jack Johnson in the same year.


In my opinion the color line had to due mostly with the money / part of boxing. But if the money or terms were right, Jeffries would fight a black man as champion. See history in the Griffin match. Or see the quote from Jeffries here when he said Johnson pre the 1905 loss to Hart was a possible opponent!

It is mentioned that Johnson asked Jeffries for a fight pre-1904, and Jeffries told him he could not draw flies. In other words, the money wasn't there in Jeffries mind. He did however offer Johnson a private fight on the spot. Guess who tucked tail and left the room?


The truth of the matter, and it must burn you to the core is Jack Johnson is the #1 culprit for not fighting highly ranked black fighters, and the offers he had were much greater than the $20,000 Jeffries was offered for fighting a teen aged Sam McVey, who had very few fights in the USA in 1903.

I have a hunch you won't acknowledge or learn history when it goes against the grain of your agenda, so much of what I am posting here is for others to read and judge

 

There is no evidence that Jeffries ever fought Martin or Childs in numerous articles thoughout his life he never once claimed to have done so. Neither do any of his biographers claim that he did.

There is cast iron evidence that he refused to fight McVey, Martin, and Johnson when challenged to do so.

There is also cast iron, irrefutable proof that he was offered very financially rewarding guarantees to face McVey and Martin whilst Champion but declined preffering to take lesser purses against the likes of Jack Munroe a defence of which he later said in print, he was ashamed of.


The challenge to Jeffries was in November 1903 ,McVey ,was 205lbs and had only lost to Johnson, he had kod Martin in 1 round! Kod Fred Russell and Kid Carter, 5 months previous to being kod by Mcvey ,Carter had drawn with Marvin Hart . Carter twice kod Choynski in 1 rd,Maher in 2rds ,and Joe Butler in 1 rd . Russell had kod Mexican Pete Everett twice in 9 rds apiece,Klondike in 3rds!.And Hank Griffin in14rds! Those are the men that Mcvey was beating.
McVey did not lose to Martin until August 1904.After his challenge to Jeffries and a guaranteed purse of $20,000 for Jeffries had been turned down


Jeffries said he would not fight McVey because he had lost to Johnson, nor would he fight Johnson because at around 180lbs he said Johnson was too small ,thats really funny, he twice fought Fitz who was comfortably inside the lhvy limit and an old man to boot , but he wouldn't face Johnson because he was too little! McVey quit boxing the same month that Jeffries had his last defence August 1904, it was in disgust at losing to Denver Ed Martin that month , a man that he had previously kod in 1 rd,a man Jeffries refused to fight, that made him quit.

His first fight back was against Martin and he kod him in 4rds and later kod him again in 16rds
,
Adam Pollack has twice stated in the last week that Jeffries was never prepared to defend his title against a black man.

Jeffries went into print many ,many times reiterating it.

I've never pretended Jack Johnson should not have defended against Langford, the difference between Johnson and Jeffries is that Johnson had already beaten his best 3 black challengers before he became champ. Jeffries simply ignored his,and White America patted him on the back for it. Instead of facing either McVey, Martin, or Johnson , instead Jeffries chose as his last defence Jack Munroe. Jeffries cleared around £900 for the Munroe fight.

No one with a lick of sense would suggest that Munroe was better qualified to challenge Jeffries than Johnson or McVey.

THOSE ARE THE FACTS, AND NO AMOUNT OF LYING SPIN WILL CHANGE THEM!!!

 

After his loss by decision in his ten-round bout with Denver Ed Martin at Hazard's Pavilion in Los Angeles on August 12, 1904 and his third loss to Jack Johnson, which resulted in a knockout in the twentieth round, at Mechanic's Pavilion in San Francisco on April 22, 1904, Sam McVey was at his lowest point of his career in California. McVey's performance in the loss to Martin was regarded as very dismal. Afterwards, it was felt that McVey was going to have to get a regular job because he was essentially through as a professional boxer. Moreover, it was reported that Uncle Tom McCarey, the boxing promoter in Los Angeles, vowed not to have McVey box for him again.

From the beginning of his career to his third loss with Johnson, McVey was managed by William A. "Billey" Roche, an Oxnard businessman who was a part-owner of a livery stable where McVey worked as a buggy washer before becoming a professional boxer in 1902. Spider Kelly, the famed boxing man from San Francisco, managed McVey when the latter lost of Martin. Ironically, Roche managed Martin when the latter won against McVey and lost by a knockout in the second round to Jack Johnson in 1904.

McVey didn't have a recorded bout in Los Angeles and San Francisco, the largest cities in California by a considerable margin at the time, after the loss to Martin in 1904. He did have bouts in other cities in California afterwards, but his career didn't take off aagain to any great degree until he left the state and eventually went to Europe by way of New York City in 1907.