Jeffries got what he deserved ...

Fitzsimmons was clearly the best heavyweight in the world when Jeffries rematched him, because he had cleaned out the top contenders.

Corbett's win over Kid McCoy combined with his previous showing against Jeffries put him in the picture.

Even Jack Munro had put together a bit of a winning streak.

The bottom line is that Fitzsimmons, Corbett, and even Munro, were all fighters that the media identified as obvious opponents for Jeffries.

McVea had also been identified as a possible opponent for Jeffries, but neither Langford nor Jeanette were even in the discussion yet.

You cannot argue that they were better challengers, based on what they would go on to be in the future.

 

God how pathetic. A black man acts like an upstanding citizen and hes an uncle tom, another acts like an antisocial self absorbed ****head and hes a hero for black people. Is there any wonder why morons like Travon and Michael Brown get so much traction in the press and the black community. Talk about backwards. What is it when a white man acts like Jack Johnson? Jesus talk about a double standard and setting the bar low for progressive thinking. Im appalled by some of you.

And dont give me that horse**** about Johnson being hated solely because he went with white women. Thats utter nonsense and I can illustrate over and over and over how people far more accepting than jim crow America ostracized Johnson because of his behavior and not his white women. That argument MIGHT get SOME traction if Johnson had never moved out of Galveston but the guy made more enemies than friends EVERYWHERE he went and he was one of the more well travelled individuals in the world at that time. Like I said before, the common denominator is Johnson in that equation. It doesnt take a genius or even a racist circa 1900s redneck to figure out that maybe the issue wasnt with everybody else but with Johnson himself.

 

And that had a lot more to do with Gans having hurt his reputation by admitting to tanking fights. As recently as January of that year he was quoted as admitting to have faked several fights including McGovern. He was desperate for a payday because promoters werent willing to pay him top dollar, not because of his skin but because they couldnt be sure they could rely on him. Lets also not forget that in many quarters Nelson was regarded as the incumbent champion going into the first Gans fight. He got a premium for his services because Rickard and Sullivan (had aligned themselves with Gans and at least partially represented his business interests in that fight) were trying to entice him to Goldfield. Nelson held all or at least most of the cards and was able to leverage that into a nice payday. It had next to nothing to do with Gans' skin color.

Comments like these, whether tongue in cheek or not, are what get me. Go back and read about the race riots that took place after Johnson beat Jeffries and you will see that there just as many incidents of racial violence started by blacks emboldened by Johnson's win as there were of whites against blacks. Thats part of the narrative that gets lost in all of the stories about whites rampaging through black neighborhoods attacking anyone they saw because their hero got beat. :roll: If a black man brandishing a gun, taking pot shots at windows downtown and shouting "I dare anybody to call me ******" is "walking tall" then I guess Ferguson and the Rodney King riots were as empowering and acceptable as Selma and Birmingham and we can all be proud the 17 year old two towns over from me who drove his car through the front of a gun store, cleaned out its inventory and was caught just before he could go to Ferguson and sell those guns to the rioters. He was a just a freedom fighting kid "walking tall" right? Give me an f-ing break.

I would say that is a perfect example of the fact that these guys knew him and realized he was a piece of **** and didnt want him representing them. Considering those feelings were legion Id hardly call Langford, Jeanette, or Armstrong uncle toms.

And if anything that proves my point more than yours. Langford and Jeanette were almost universally accepted and respected. So why is it the knee jerk reaction to pretend Johnson wasnt liked because of his white women. Its a stupid argument. Johnson wasnt liked because he was a jerk. Johnson wasnt selectively prosecuted under the Mann act he was patently guilty of it and regardless of what Max Kellerman mistakenly says that act wasnt passed with Johnson in mind, he just happened to be stupid enough to run afoul of it.

 

You're basically saying that Dixon, Langford, Blackburn, McVea, they were all just a bunch of whipped b17ches. That it? That's one bold f*cking assumption.

You're judging actions as if they existed in a vacuum. They don't. Johnson's actions cost a lot to a lot of people, rather if it was an act of rebellion or not. And it would've been a whole different story if he actually intended for his defiance to be a message to the black people. He didn't. He stated clearly he didn't intend to be just the first black HW champion. He intended to be the only black HW champion.

Which is why I listed his contemporaries and the ones that came before. To illustrate that Johnson wasn't the norm. He was the exception. He was a brilliant fighter, a pioneer, a bad4ss, all that true. But to fully deny him any responsibility for effectively closing the doors for every single black boxer for more than a decade is no short of perverse. But maybe you're right. Maybe we don't have the perspective or the right to judge Johnson's actions. Langford, Jeanette, Blackburn, and all the truly great black boxers that to some extent or another were forced to fight for scr4ps for the rest of their careers though, had both, and while I don't usually like following echoes, in this case I'll take their word for it.

 

After McVey kod Ed Martin
A promoter offered Jeffries a substantial guarantee to fight McVey, he refused,just as when champion he refused to fight Johnson.

 

Man as I understand it (and this is your thread) we were discussing Jeffries conduct not his merit. As conduct goes Johnson gave as many title shots to black fighters as Jeffries. I'm more than aware Jeffries record looks better than actually is. Hell is a weird enough position for me to be forced to defend Jeffries and attack Johnson.

 

As I told you McVey was very young, and had quit boxing once. He wasn't well known, or the #1 guy.

 

Not all black intellectuals liked Johnson. Kevin Smith a well researched expert on early black fighters says Johnson's title reign was a negative one toward race relations, and he's correct. Keep in Mind Johnson was a selfish *****. He wanted Max Schemling to beat Joe Louis so he could be the only black champion.

The difference here is Johnson beat on women, including his wife. He called black women two timers in his book, and pimped women in his night club. Jeannette and Langford did not do this.

Odd, Peter Jackson, Sam Langford, and Joe Jeanette were well liked. Jack Johnson was not.

 

Unpopular with blacks? 5000 blacks queued outside the Pekin Theatre in Chicago to hear round by round bulletins of the fight.
At Dearborn Street Station thousands of blacks flocked to greet Johnson's train and begin a 2 day victory celebration.
Kevin Smith? The same Kevin Smith who came on this forum and told you to stop attributing statements to him that he had never made?

Max Schmeling, not Shemling as you always call him
. Johnson picked Louis to beat Baer and Carnera and he offered to train him.
The fact that he accurately predicted that Schmeling would beat Louis because Louis did not return his left glove to the guard position was not his fault, it was Louis's and Blackburn's.
Johnson turned out to be a much better predictor of fights than Langford,Armstrong Corbett,Burns,Sharkey or Jeannette ever were!
Jackson and Langford died in poverty with Langford blind.
and Jackson a bitter tubercular drunk. Which black man would want them as role models?

 

I'll get to your points later.

 

Not all black intellectuals liked Johnson. Kevin Smith a well researched expert on early black fighters says Johnson's title reign was a negative one toward race relations, and he's correct. Keep in Mind Johnson was a selfish *****. He wanted Max Schemling to beat Joe Louis so he could be the only black champion.



The difference here is Johnson beat on women, including his wife. He called black women two timers in his book, and pimped women in his night club. Jeannette and Langford did not do this.

Odd, Peter Jackson, Sam Langford, and Joe Jeanette were well liked. Jack Johnson was not

Who is Joghnson? I said Jack Johnson was not liked by all black intellectuals. . This is the case. Then you for some reason talk about a crowd of 5,000. Geez.

Kevin Smith agrees with me on Johnson's title reign being negative, and Johnson drawing the color line.

A man's worth is not defined by longevity or riches, but character. Johnson's known sins out weigh almost ever prize fighter I can think of.

 

You should really stick to boxing history and give up talking about social issues, like at all. By the way you talk it seems you have not the faintest clue what the issues are. Do you think it's a coincidence that victims of **** or other abuse have had either a much reduced sentence or none at all for crimes they committed? It's a verifiable defense and one that has been held up by courts. Nobody is saying his actions weren't wrong, but what you don't seem to get is that most of his actions could be directed attributed to his upbringing. I guess most psychologist are wrong who think there is a pattern between kids witnessing domestic abuse or consumption and committing the same crimes themselves. I'm honestly baffled by your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.

 

I'm honestly amazed at the posts of some