Jeffries offers to fight Johnson in a cellar

In 1904 Johnson had 5 fights
A no contest with Sandy Ferguson
A NW S 6rds over Black Bill
A 6Rds Pts win over Frank Childs
A 20 Rds KO over Sam McVey
A 2 rds Ko over Denver Ed Martin

After koing Martin in 2rds,[Martin was unconscious for nearly 10 minutes]
Johnson challenged Jeffries.

" I want Mr Jeffries next,I think I am entitled to a fight,and it was to prove that I am right that I went on this way tonight.I am faster,than ever,and ,bigger and stronger" ." The color line is a time worn old, cowardly four flushers standby".
The Police Gazette said .
" Johnson is as fast as an electric spark ,and as full of power,as a 90 horsepower automobile,he has so spectacularly defended his "dark meat title",that,Jeffries has no right to draw the color line".

Referring to Jeffries stance on not fighting a black challenger, the Gazette stated.

This crude,uncouth,unpopular , giant[Jeffries],fought Peter Jackson,old and war weary.
Hank Griffin a third rater,,and Bob Armstrong, who hustled him for ten rounds.This trio was black.
Why , will he not give Johnson a match?
Here is a man who can fight and is ready ,and willing to do so."
" Jeffries does not defend his position, but ,rather arbitrarily determines that he has the best right to say whom he will fight."
Jeffries," I do not care whether Johnson licks the Japanese Army,I have repeatedly declared that so long as I am in the fighting business, I will never make a match with a black man.
The negroes may come and the negroes may go,and some of the negroes may be excellent figting men.
Just tell the public that James J Jeffries has made up his mind that he will never put on boxing gloves to give battle to an Ethiopian."


In 1904.
Jeffries had one contest
A 2 Rds ko over Jack Munroe

Who do you think had the bigger name Johnson or Munroe?

Who do you think was the bigger draw Johnson or Munroe?

Who do you think deserved a title shot more Johnson ,or Munroe?


" I ain't no cellar fighter"
Jack Johnson

 

For what it is worth, in a series of very candid articles, which i linked elsewhere, Jim Jeffries confirmed that this event did take place. It was at a saloon owned by Jim Corbett (or it might have been his brother) and Jeffries did offer to go to the Cellar and Johnson politely refused. Jeffries said it is something that he was not proud of and he didnt think it meant anything at all.

He also suggested that the reality of him not fighting Johnson was for the simple reason that at that time, he was not thought to be in the same class as him. Particularly after the Hart loss, and he didnt think anyone would take the fight seriouslyor there would be much interest in the fight. He said that was the one only reason adn that the colour line had nothing at all to do with it. Reading the entire series, I got the opinion that Jeffries was being very honest in his writings.

 

The money was never up for Jeffries vs. Johnson from 1899-1904 while Jeffries was champion, and Johnson's loss to Hart in 1905 took him out of the running. I do think Johnson was a top contender from late 1903 to 1904, but the Hart loss combined with losses to the likes of Klondike, Choynski, Griffin, and other draws from 1899-1904 is proof positive that Johnson was not a world beater from 1899-1905.

Since Munroe got a title shot by lying, I think its fair to speculate that if Johnson had accepted the cellar fight, he could have " exaggerated things " which might have lead to a real fight. Johnson fought in battle royals, and dumps. To say he wasn't a cellar fighter to me is an out.

As for Munroe, he was badly beaten by Jeffries in 2 rounds. Later and out of shape Munroe went the distance with Johnson.

 

For what it is worth, the saloon was owned by Harry Corbett, Jim's brother.It happened in September 1904 which is BEFORE Johnson lost to Hart ,[May 1905].So Jeffries is full of **** ,in 1904,Johnson was the standout contender.
The Police Gazette.23rd April 1904.
"By beating Sam McVey again the other night,Jack Johnson the dusky hero of a score of fights has placed himself in a position to legitimately claim a fight with Jim Jeffries.
There does not appear to be a ringman in all the wide area where pugilism holds sway ,with sufficient inches and heft to meet the world's champion other than Johnson".

As early as October 1903 ,the L A Times led with this story,[ after Johnson had outclassed Sam Mcvey for the second time.]
" The color line gag does not go now.It is pay or play in the fighting business.Johnson has met all comers in his class: has defeated each and every one . Now he stands ready to box for the world's heavyweight championship".
"The public through the daily newspapers,demands a fight for the championship on behalf of Jack Johnson.Jeffries must heed the call "


Jeffries didn't think anyone would take a fight between him and the number one challenger seriously ? Yet he defended against the pathetic Jack Munroe that year?
What a load of crap!
Jack Munroe knew himself he had no business ,and no chance against Jeffries.
In the first round, he pleaded with Jeffries to let him make a showing ,as a fight it was a farce , as a defence of the heavyweight title , it was a disgrace.

 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your basic point here, but what if we hold Jack Johnson to the same standard? If the Munroe fight was a farce, disgrace, etc then what was Johnson's title defense against middleweight Stanley Ketchel?

This isn't a setup, just an honest question

 

And is Jeffries dismissing of Jack Johnson as a challenger any more or less disgraceful than Johnson's dismissal of Sam Langford as a challenger?

 

No to both questions.Johnson should have fought Langford again, but at least he did fight him once. Langford did not win a round.
Jeffries stating Johnson had no name in 1904 and therefore there was no money in a fight with him is utter crap.Johnson was the standout contender in 1904.
Even the most cursory research will show this .

Anyone ever found a newspaper that suggested that Munroe was the logical challenger for Jeffries title ?
Jeffries did not fight Johnson in 1904 because he was too ****ing dangerous, not because he could not make money with him.
Johnson allways said he could make far more money beating the white hopes than he could tackling the three dangerous black contenders,Jeannette,McVey,and Langford. And promoters such as Barney Curley supported his view.

Four months prior to meeting Johnson, Ketchel had kod the reigning Light heavyweight Champion [O Brien], in 3 rds.
The reason Ketchel got his chance actually reinforces my point, he had the right complexion and therefore a lot more money could be made if he challenged Johnson rather than Langford.It may not be right but it is economics. Jeffries in contrast took on a man who was widely perceived as having next to no chance , thats why the financial results were dissapointing.

I pick Ketchel to ko Munroe , how about you?

The purses Langford received appear to bear this out, his highest was for fighting Iron Hague in the UK.
Of the three, I think only Langford had a realistic chance with a prime Johnson,and only after 1910,when Jack begun to physically decline, don't forget that as late as March 1910 Langford was only scaling 166lbs for fights.

 

all this can be true. i do not know. but for whatever reason he didn't wanted to fight him. being it the guy was black or whatever.. he obviously wasn't afraid of him.. since he offered him to go into the basement just the 2 of them.. where there are no referees to check if you fight by the rules or to interfere incase needed.

 

He was afraid to fight him with his title on the line wasn't he?

Jack in later years, with his band and friends, one of whom ,in the front row ,appears to have forgotten to put her knickers on.

This content is protected

 

Here is Jeffries take on the situation.

I just noticed this and this is very interesting. Johnson was offered a winner take all fight Just after he beat Jeffries brother! I had always maintained a hunch that Jeffries was building to a possible jOhnson fight, before the Hart fight skittled it. I think this supports that hunch.

Also, the cellar fight was supposedly for the title, according to Jeffries, so it is not true that he was afraid to defend the title, it seems. Although for the record, i am guessing that Jeffries had consumed his share of liquor by this stage, with JOhnson unaffected. I think Johnson would have murdered him. And i agree with Jeffries, it is not something to be proud of. In fact, i think Johnson's standing as a man went up for not taking the fight.

Jeffries comments about opponents are true. We know Langford, McVey and Jeanette went on to be great. WE also know now that Johnson was capable of carrying opponents. But who were the top contenders of the time that Johnson actually beat?

It is also telling that Johnson could have been secured for the Hart Root world title match. In hindsight it was wrong, but it is easy to see why JOhnson had not yet become the number one contender as is claimed here. In fact, in early 04, he couldnt even beat Jack Munroe, who had been so badly outclassed by jeffries less than a year earlier. I think the points Jeffries raises are clear. Johnson was simply one of a number of possible contenders when Jeffries retired and this is the main reason why Johnson didnt get his shot.

 

Serious question. Do you actually beleive what you posted here?
How could Jeffries fighting Johnson in Harry Corbett's cellar be for the heavyweight title?
Jim Jeffries stated publicly and emphatically MANY TIMES that he would not defend his title against a black man,.How on God' s earth can you ignore this, and assert Jeffries intended to fight Johnson?
For your information.
By 1904 Jack Johnson had defeated.

Kennedy
Childs x3
Gardner
Klondike
Russell
Martin x2
McVey x3
Ferguson x3
Butler
Show me a contender who had a better record at that time?

Jack Jeffries.? Here is a statement made by
Tom McCarey, Johnson's former promoter/ manager. Johnson gave him an envelope just before the start of the fight,asking him not to open, it till he gave him the nod.
"For four rounds Johnson toyed with Jeffries, his boxing was marvellous, his footwork,superb.During the fighting he would reach over Jeffries shoulders in the clinches,and wink at me", Where did you get that slick tie Uncle Tom?"He'd ask, then he'd shed Jeffries punches like so many snowflakes" .
" As they left their corners for the start of the fifth,Johnson hunched his shoulders and whaled away at Jeffries,He shouted to me,"You may now read that little note I gave you this afternoon". "" I did,and on it was written" " I'll stop Jeffries,within 50 seconds after the fifth round starts". "When I looked up ,Jeffries was being counted out"

"A grinning Johnson lifted Jeffries from the canvas and helped fan him back to consciousness .Jim Jeffries entered the ring to aid his brother and Johnson said to him " "I can lick you too"," Jeffries ignored him". Show me ONE News Report where Jeffries offered Johnson a winner take all fight after Johnson kod his brother.
After Johnson kod Denver Ed Martin in 2rds, McCarey offered Jeffries $15,000 to fight Johnson, Jeffries refused.
Johnson won a lazy NWS dec over Munroe in 6rds Show me ONE report that gave it to Munroe.

 

Jack Johnson was the man . He definitely plowed her later on