Jeffries offers to fight Johnson in a cellar

You are going to have to explain that to all of us because apparently I haven't gotten the memo on McVey being a bigot LOLOL I am a white guy also, a redneck even but like McVey I know what I see......the bigotry of the era has to considered when it comes to Jeffries and Johnson and any difficulties concerning careers, prejudices and sentiment they had Jim Crowe laws, sharecropping ex slaves children of slaves which was modern slavery but hey they gave us the Delta Blues, Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf etc....BTW lynchings were still common and overlooked........I would say Jack Johnson career was exponentially more difficult than Jeffries given the societal issues we had then.

IMO IF and that was a big IF Jeffries and Johnson would have gone into the cellar the only thing Jeffries would have beaten was his ding a ling.

 

Yes there was problems, but I can not think of one in the ring where a African American fighter was attacked. In addition, Johnson seems to interact very well with a mostly white crowd on the films.

As for Mcvey, he loathes Jeffries and constantly tries to degrade him, often with mistakes.

He said Rocky lacked one punch power, and he didn't like the Klitschko's either.

You'd have to be here for a while, but there is a common dominator on all of the above.

On the flip side, he loves Ali ( I rate him #1 ), and defends Johnson for what I think are political reasons. He also bashes conservative pop culture figures.

Jeffries would have beaten Johnson from 1899-1906, if you read and judge results, this is not too easy to see, Mcvey himself once said he doesn't thing Johnson would have beaten Jeffries while Jeffries was champion and doesn't think Johnson had a good title reign.

In a private street fight, I think Johnson gets injured.

 

One guy surprises another by showing up and challenging him to a fight when it got real the person asking for the fight exit quickly.

Johnson, a man with dignity? Hardly. He pulled out of signed contracts. He had many issues with the law that he created, and was such a gentleman with dignity, he beat his wife to inches of her death, and attacked a 120-pound sickly man, claiming self-defense.

Dignity? He was an @ss who only cared about himself and stated he wanted to be the only black heavyweight champion, which likely means he wanted Schemling to defeat Louis in the re-match. The black in intellectuals of the time did not like him either.

 

I don't loathe Jeffries,I loathe the lies you tell about him and his fights.
I think I have been fair to him on this thread ask others?

I said Marciano was not usually a one punch ko artist and I stand by that statement.Nobody and I mean nobody, has praised Marciano more than I on this forum,I've many ,many times called him a great fighter,a great champion who ducked no one,and a fine man.
Neither do I dislike the Klitschko brothers ,I believe they have carried themselves as champions should.I picked Vitali to come out of retirement and beat Sam Peter and I gave fulsome praise to Wlad for his losing effort to AJ.
I think Johnson would have defeated Jeffries had he been given the chance instead of that no hoper Jack Munro.
What conservative pop culture figures have I disparaged?

I repeat I am white.How can I possibly biased against my own?

There is a common dominator in my posts with you .It is ME! I dominate you every time!lol
There is one standout hater on this forum and everybody knows it is YOU!
Now can we possibly return to thread MR KKK?

 

As usual you are frothing at the mouth and your post is bordering on unintelligible.

Calm down before you have a seizure.


On second thoughts , don't calm down!lol

 

So, (trying, probably unsuccesfully) to hijack this thread and take it away from mcvey mendoza racism scuffle, how does everyone think think that Denver Ed Martin think that an overweight 37 yearold 6 4 and 250 pound denver ed martin would fit into todays scene. From memory that height may be a touch over stated.

But do you think that version of Denver would slot into the current top 10 of one of the organisations without any trouble, or perhaps even go higher and even take a championship?

 

There is no racism in any of my posts ,just an aversion to liars.
Could you explain what you are getting at with your query about Martin Im afraid I haven't grasped it B?

 

Some guys seem to have rose colored blinders on when it comes to that era....America was in turmoil as were alot of countries 40-50 years out of slavery of the only group of Americans who did not voluntarily come here....Johnson was a progressive person in an intolerable era but he some to think that a split second in time captured in pictures is representative of the whole of society and the events of the moment......I would suggest an extensive study of Gene Sharp and the psychology of image....this photographic proof does not tell the story of the struggle for Johnson and anyone who claims otherwise should be ashamed to think so

 

i just thought it interesting that one of those older articles noted he was so big. 6 4 and 230 pounds is modern super heavy size. Yet Martin wasnt as good as the smaller fighters his size of his time. if there were splintered titles then, like today he probably wins an alphabet title at some point of his career, although maybe not at this age when he was this heavy.

I was just wondering, how he might go against todays super heavy. It seems to me that he would be a top contender and would be in the frame, not sure if this is or isnt a popular opinion though.

Obviously without film it is a less imposing question, but i pose it still the same.

NOthing to do with the actual thread title, which i am sure most (including Jeffries) agree has zero standing on either's atg standing and to which Jeffries was in the wrong.

 

Martin was Ko'd six times early to the head or the body. He was a string bean type, and is packing more glass than David Price. Does that answer your question?

 

Oh that's rich. You lie like the rug. And you don't grasp things quickly, but I answered it anyway.

 

I guess the question with Martin is how much did he weigh when a top contender in the 1901-1905 or so era. Adam Pollack has a quote that Armstrong and Martin were pretty evenly matched in height and weight, Armstrong 6' 3" with Martin a bit taller but possibly still short of 6' 4" and each weighing about 190.

The 230 and 240 lb. weights are years later when Martin does not appear to have been all that active as a fighter.

 

My take on this discussion
1--the idea of Johnson accepting a fight in a cellar is utterly ridiculous and this story reflects no credit on Jeff.
2--Johnson was the leading contender after the Corbett fight until he lost to Hart and Jeffries should have defended against him.
3--Criticizing Jeff for defending against Corbett in 1903 is imposing modern takes on the past. I believe folks at the time thought this a logical, or even the logical, match and matches are made on what folks think at the time.
4--Interesting to read what the Police Gazette (I remember it well) thought, but I did find putting down Hank Griffin as a second rater odd as Johnson never defeated him in three tries, with one loss and two draws, and Griffin had an overall decent record.
5--I agree that Jeff might well have blown a much higher historical rating by avoiding Johnson in 1904. Had that fight come off, and Jeff won it, he would certainly be considered the best pre-Louis heavyweight today.
6--I don't think Jeff retired to avoid Johnson. Hart had beaten Johnson, so the logical next defense for Jeff was Hart.
7--The fact that there wasn't enough interest in a Jeff-Hart match for the fight to come off raises questions about Johnson's general stature at the time. It is odd that beating him didn't seem to buoy up Hart in public esteem that much.

 

Please give examples of my lies.As I have invited you many times to do so.
Make a thread specifically about them and I will answer every accusation you bring and top them with your proven and deliberate lies ,.That will serve two ends it will stop you further ****ing up every thread with your toxic hatred of Johnson and I can happily expose you yet again as the lying arsehole you are.
Now the ball is in your court ,pick it up and make the thread!

 

Going off Boxrec, he was KOd by McVey, Johnson and Armstrong plus cowler and wills in the later years. Hardly any shame in that.

Some Random good modern champs might have the following losses:
Ruiz - Nicholson, Kobozev, Tua, Holyfield, Jones Jr, Valuev and Chavez
Rahman - Lewis, Maskaev, Tua, Ruiz, Holyfield, Klitchsko, povetkin
Klitchsko - Purity, Sanders, Brewster, Fury, Wilder
Haye - Thompson, Klitchsko, Bellow.

He would never be the next Joe Louis, but i would back Wills, McVey, Johnson and armstrong to win more than their fair share of matches against many of those listed above, so it seems harsh to write off martin completly because he lost to some very good fighters. Cowler and Armstrong were also solit top 10 contenders and would beat some fighers on the lists posted above. Most of todays guys lose the first time they fight someone decent.